[net.religion] To Wingate on Rosen

wkp@lanl.ARPA (04/03/85)

[Charley Wingate writes:]

>But Rich argues against EVERYTHING to which anyone has ever attached the
>name of Christ, and thus does not count.  Byron Howes, if I recall correctly,
>is sort of a gnostic christian.  Bill, if you are going to claim that Rich
>argues for reason, you are all wet.  As far as I can tell, Rich is arguing
>for shouting at the top of your lungs.

Charley, I'm not a psychologist and I don't care about people's reasons
for posting, or their personal ego trips.

I have already summarized the "actions" (i.e., inactions) of many of 
your friends in regard to IC.  The only thing I care about in this
regard is reality.  REALITY is not talking to god in Pizza Hut while
neo-Nazis stir up hatred.  REALITY is not watching people being shipped
to death camps and saying "I didn't know" or "imagine" or "care".  

It is action that counts.  And while many of your friends who discuss
"real presence" or "transubstantiation" theologized with Black, it was only
people like Tim or Rich or Byron or S. Aldrich or many others who saw
the inherent evil in that man's spouting.  Sorry, Charley.  You'll have
to think up better excuses why your friends didn't respond (didn't get
a chance to, were busy, 'rn' keys, etc.) or responded inappropriately
(were misunderstood, didn't know, etc.).

I'm really losing patience with some of your excuses.  If you have
a personal grudge against Rosen or Maroney, I don't care.  At least
they saw racism for what it was, and FOUGHT against it.

By the way, in your article you called Byron a "christian".  Using
your notation ("christian" instead of "Christian"), that's not
very complementary is it?  Or aren't Gnostic Christians Christian?
--
bill peter                   cmcl2!lanl!wkp

bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) (04/04/85)

In article <24035@lanl.ARPA> wkp@lanl.ARPA writes:
 
>By the way, in your article you called Byron a "christian".  Using
>your notation ("christian" instead of "Christian"), that's not
>very complementary is it?  Or aren't Gnostic Christians Christian?

Thanks, Bill, for the good thoughts.  I'd just as soon not be used as
a club against Charley or anyone else, however.  Whether Charley (or
anyone else) calls me a Christian or christian or m*****f****r is
hardly important to me.  I'm not too easily offended by such as that.

I think we all, myself included, are often guilty of not counting to
10 before we post to this group.  I'd like to do my bit to keep the
flames at a manageable level.

							Enjoy,


-- 

						Byron C. Howes
				      ...!{decvax,akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch

mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (04/04/85)

In article <24035@lanl.ARPA> wkp@lanl.ARPA writes:

>It is action that counts.  And while many of your friends who discuss
>"real presence" or "transubstantiation" theologized with Black, it was only
>people like Tim or Rich or Byron or S. Aldrich or many others who saw
>the inherent evil in that man's spouting.  Sorry, Charley.  You'll have
>to think up better excuses why your friends didn't respond (didn't get
>a chance to, were busy, 'rn' keys, etc.) or responded inappropriately
>(were misunderstood, didn't know, etc.).

How presumptious.  You really claim to know why people choose not to post.
The four people mentioned above are those who decided it was necessary to
respond.  Your cheap accusations (frankly, I dont' recall discussing
transubstantiation with anyone recently, and certainly not with Don Black)
have no substance.  Without some real proof that the people you condemn DID
read Black's articles, and assented to them, your charges are rubbish.

>I'm really losing patience with some of your excuses.  If you have
>a personal grudge against Rosen or Maroney, I don't care.  At least
>they saw racism for what it was, and FOUGHT against it.

They did nothing of the kind.  The influence of USENET over the world is so
infinitesimally small that it isn't worth bothering with.  It's very easy to
sit back in your office, prop up your feet, take up the keyboard, and flame
away at whatever catches your fancy.  It also has almost no effect upon the
world, especially when it is done so regularly and with such self-
righteousness.

>By the way, in your article you called Byron a "christian".  Using
>your notation ("christian" instead of "Christian"), that's not
>very complementary is it?  Or aren't Gnostic Christians Christian?

This doesn't make any sense to me.  I recall a discussion a while back
concerning Byron's beliefs.  About the only sense I can extract from this is
that Bill has joined the Rich Rosen "Read Things Into Upper and Lower Case"
club of putting things in my posting which aren't there.  Now watch closely:

 Gnostic christian==gnostic Christian==Gnostic Christian==gnostic christian

Clear enough?  (BTW, Byron, if I misread you, feel free to correct me.)

Charley Wingate   umcp-cs!mangoe

rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Dr. Emmanuel Wu) (04/04/85)

> It is action that counts.  And while many of your friends who discuss
> "real presence" or "transubstantiation" theologized with Black, it was only
> people like Tim or Rich or Byron or S. Aldrich or many others who saw
> the inherent evil in that man's spouting.  Sorry, Charley.  You'll have
> to think up better excuses why your friends didn't respond (didn't get
> a chance to, were busy, 'rn' keys, etc.) or responded inappropriately
> (were misunderstood, didn't know, etc.).
> 
> I'm really losing patience with some of your excuses.  If you have
> a personal grudge against Rosen or Maroney, I don't care.  At least
> they saw racism for what it was, and FOUGHT against it. [BILL PETER]

It's become apparent that Charley's "personal grudges" are far more
important than what he claims to be his personal beliefs.  Remember
that this is the man who justified abusive proselytizing.  And the man
who complains "How dare you categorize me with that incorrect politicoreligious
label?"  *I'M* not one of them.  *MY* church isn't like that." in direct
contradiction to his actions.  As if proving that he belongs to a group with
a different label gets him off the hook.

> By the way, in your article you called Byron a "christian".  Using
> your notation ("christian" instead of "Christian"), that's not
> very complementary is it?  Or aren't Gnostic Christians Christian?

(Sorry, I'm laughing.)  Charley often claims "randomness" as the source of
his decision making process for choosing to capitalize and/or quote (or not)
the word Christian.  Recall that the original usage was to distinguish
"christian" intolerance (i.e., not by Christians) from Jewish intolerance
(i.e., *by* Jews?).
-- 
"It's a lot like life..."			 Rich Rosen  ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr