[net.religion] the three temptations of Christ; reply to Mike Huybensz

david@cvl.UUCP (David Harwood) (04/05/85)

Reply to a comment
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>From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: testing God, and evidence for faith
Message-ID: <439@cybvax0.UUCP>

In article <238@cvl.UUCP> david@cvl.UUCP (David Harwood) writes:
> 	As an aside, it is very interesting to consider exactly what were
> the three great temptations of Christ -- which should warn us of our own
> fallibility as Christians and others living in these dangerous and unjust
> times. First, Christ was challenged to make bread of the rocks; but he
> replied "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the word of God."
> That is, Jesus rejected materialism, which ignores spiritual needs.
> Secondly, as was just mentioned, Christ rejected proving himself by testing
> whether God would save him from self-destruction. And, finally, Christ
> was challenged to accept political power over the world, in return for 
> dignifying what is evil; but he replied, "You shall honor and serve God
> alone." That is Jesus refused the political power of evil.

It's very interesting to consider that these are precisely the responses we
would expect a fraudulent miracleworker to use to explain why he won't
work a miracle right here and now to show you.  Of course he'll be happy
to tell you of the miracles he worked when you weren't there....
-- 

Mike Huybensz		...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh

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	Of course, this was not my point at all, as I'm sure you're aware.
So that there is no confusion with your opinions, I've reposted my conclusion
of this paragraph at the bottom.
	Perhaps, this passage of the early part of the Gospels is not quite
relevant even to the points which I believe you want to make, which are
important. But Jesus is here portrayed as rejecting some very common and
dangerous temptations -- that is the point of the passage. On the other
hand, surely you would not want yourself to accept these temptations,
would you?  I hope not, whether or not you are religious. Neither would 
you be impressed if he was portrayed as proving himself to Satan, the
accuser, who proposed these things. (I might presuppose that you are familiar
with this passage, so that you know what you are talking about, realizing 
that it was Satan who proposed these things before Jesus began his ministry.
Actually, it seems to me that you are not familiar with the Gospels, but
are superficially familiar with some criticisms of claims made for Christ.)
	But your point is: you propose that Jesus prove himself to you,
and everyone, by a supernatural act. In this sense, you are his accuser.
Also, you wish to disregard the testimony of others, because you prefer
your own more 'rational' viewpoint. (And we all do this sometimes, but
it is wrong to dismiss the views of those who have no pretty obvious reason
to deceive anyone; the earliest followers had no such obvious motivation,
but sought to be faithful, yet they were in agreement that God had made 
known to them that Jesus was the Christ.)
	This is complicated by three considerations. First, according to
Jewish tradition, is the Messiah to prove himself by his own power to act?
Second, if he acts, not by his own power, but according to the power of
God, can we test him, expecting God to prove this to our satisfaction by
acting extraordinarily? Finally, what are we to make of the contradictory
references in the Gospel which appeal to the evidence of 'miracles', however 
we may take this, or rather deny their expectation?
	This makes for a fair number of problems.
	Actually, I may be able to answer these partly, but first you will
have to want to listen very carefully (I know because I am deaf and cannot
hear anything if I do not pay very close attention; on the other hand, if
I did not realize that I was deaf, then I would never understand anything
at all.) But now that I have your attention, and since you are such a smart
son of a gun, I will not deprive you of your conceit, but let you prove
that you do not know the answers, but that neither do you want to listen.
	Why, therefore, would God prove anything to you? After all, God
is not foolish, so that he does not conceal some things.




Reposting my paragraph together with its intended conclusion:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
	As an aside, it is very interesting to consider exactly what were
the three great temptations of Christ -- which should warn us of our own
fallibility as Christians and others living in these dangerous and unjust
times. First, Christ was challenged to make bread of the rocks; but he
replied "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by the word of God."
That is, Jesus rejected materialism, which ignores spiritual needs.
Secondly, as was just mentioned, Christ rejected proving himself by testing
whether God would save him from self-destruction. And, finally, Christ
was challenged to accept political power over the world, in return for 
dignifying what is evil; but he replied, "You shall honor and serve God
alone." That is Jesus refused the political power of evil.
	What are we to say, therefore, about our 'Christian' times?
	Who is materialistic? Who believes that God will save them 
'miraculously' from destruction by their own hand? Who accepts political
power that is evil?
	How are 'Christians' different from others?

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	This Passover and Easter, may the Lord deliver the faithful
from slavery, who call upon His Name, and divide the waters of history 
and destruction before them, until they receive what is promised. Even
as we are promised, "for love is strong as death; it blazes up like the
fire; many waters cannot overcome love, no flood can sweep it away.

						David Harwood