amra@ihu1n.UUCP (s. aldrich) (04/05/85)
> In article <1345@aecom.UUCP> teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) writes: > > > > I really do not believe what I am reading. Was Hitler wrong? If he had > > won the war, would he be right? How can a man, for any twisted crazy ideal go > > and kill one person, let alone 6,000,000. What right does any person have to > > kill innocent people. > > Actually, if Hitler had won, he would indeed have been correct. Not from > *my* point of view, of course, but I would be dead. In fact, as I recall, > he wanted to kill everyone who didn't believe as he did, so the only people > left alive would be those that agreed with him, or said they did. Regard- > less of what you may believe, "right" and "wrong" are societally defined, > they are *not* inborn. Thus, if everyone in my society thinks as I do, > then I am right. If Hitler killed off all the people that didn't think as > he did, his society would have agreed with him, and he would be right. > > Certainly, I don't believe that killing even one person is right, but that > is definitely not instinctive. If the rules change, so does what is > "right." > > Muffy {..."Now there's a look in your eyes, like blackholes in the sky...."} There's no way I'm going to swallow the argument that Hitler was "wrong" only because he lost the war. This is a very dangerous position to take as there are many who will then use "similiar means" to "condone" their own actions. In light of this "philosophy" which you and Spence propagated, are/were the American Indians/Native Americans WRONG to oppose the usurpation of their lands, culture, population, etc by the "White-Devils"? After all, they were on the "losing-side". Do they have ANY RIGHT to seek restitution from the "descendants"? SHould we go ahead and "finish them off" because WE'RE RIGHT? (According to your theory anyway!) I find such attitudes to be REPREHENSIBLE and Disgusting! PEACE & BEST WISHES From The Random Association Of Atoms Known As: Steve Aldrich (ihnp4!ihu1n!amra) "..Will you stand with those who say, `Let His Will Be Done`? One Hand On The Bible, One Hand On The Gun!" J. Croce
muffy@lll-crg.ARPA (Muffy Barkocy) (04/09/85)
In article <236@ihu1n.UUCP> amra@ihu1n.UUCP (s. aldrich) writes: >> In article <1345@aecom.UUCP> teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) writes: >> > >> > I really do not believe what I am reading. Was Hitler wrong? If he had >> > won the war, would he be right? How can a man, for any twisted crazy ideal go >> > and kill one person, let alone 6,000,000. What right does any person have to >> > kill innocent people. >> >> Actually, if Hitler had won, he would indeed have been correct. Not from >> *my* point of view, of course, but I would be dead. In fact, as I recall, >> he wanted to kill everyone who didn't believe as he did, so the only people >> left alive would be those that agreed with him, or said they did. Regard- >> less of what you may believe, "right" and "wrong" are societally defined, >> they are *not* inborn. Thus, if everyone in my society thinks as I do, >> then I am right. If Hitler killed off all the people that didn't think as >> he did, his society would have agreed with him, and he would be right. >> >> Certainly, I don't believe that killing even one person is right, but that >> is definitely not instinctive. If the rules change, so does what is >> "right." >> >> Muffy > >{..."Now there's a look in your eyes, like blackholes in the sky...."} > > There's no way I'm going to swallow the argument that Hitler was "wrong" > only because he lost the war. This is a very dangerous position to take > as there are many who will then use "similiar means" to "condone" their > own actions. > > In light of this "philosophy" which you and Spence propagated, are/were the > American Indians/Native Americans WRONG to oppose the usurpation of their > lands, culture, population, etc by the "White-Devils"? After all, they > were on the "losing-side". Do they have ANY RIGHT to seek restitution from > the "descendants"? SHould we go ahead and "finish them off" because WE'RE > RIGHT? (According to your theory anyway!) > > I find such attitudes to be REPREHENSIBLE and Disgusting! > > PEACE & BEST WISHES > From The Random Association Of Atoms Known As: > Steve Aldrich (ihnp4!ihu1n!amra) > > "..Will you stand with those who say, `Let His Will Be Done`? One Hand > On The Bible, One Hand On The Gun!" J. Croce I'd best restate my argument. Hitler was not "wrong only because he lost the war." He was "wrong" because our current society believes that he was wrong. Had he won the war, he would have created a society which believed that he was "right," thus, he would have been right. In the same way, our society is now feeling guilty about the broken treaties with the native Americans. Thus, people are now seeing those actions as "wrong," although at the time many (most? I wasn't there, I don't know...) people saw the actions as "right," so they happened. Again, my argument is *not* "might makes right" but "society *defines* right." I say that no action is *intrinsically* right or wrong, it is only right or wrong as defined within society and/or the person performing the action. Muffy