[net.religion] What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection after three days?

vc@hou2h.UUCP (Verbus M. Counts) (03/25/85)

"Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection  after  three
days?

 Answer. -- The resurrection of the Divine Manifestations are not of the
body.   All  Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They
have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and
Their  instructions  have a spiritual and divine signification, and have
no connection with material  things.  For example, there is the  subject
of  Christ's  coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in
the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He
will  go to heaven.  So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it
is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find:
"  And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and
mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from  heaven?"
Also  in  John,  chapter  3,  verse  13: "And no man hath ascended up to
heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which  is
in heaven."

Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while  at   that
time  Christ was on earth.  Notice also that it is said that Christ came
from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born
of  Mary.   It is clear, then , that when it is said that the Son of man
is  come  from  heaven,  this  has  not  an  outward   but   an   inward
signification;  it is a spiritual, not a material, fact.  The meaning is
that though, apparently, Christ was born  from  the  womb  of  Mary,  in
reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from
the Divine World, and the Spiritual  Kingdom.   And  as  it  has  become
evident  that  Christ  came  from  the  spiritual  heaven  of the Divine
Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has
an inner signification and is not an outward fact.  In the same way, His
resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is  a
spiritual  and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension
to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.

Beside these explanations,  it   has  been  established  and  proved  by
science  that  the  visible  heaven is a limitless area, void and empty,
where innumerable stars and planets revolve.

Therefore, we say that  the  meaning  of  Christ's  resurrection  is  as
follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of
Christ.  The Reality of  Christ,  which  signifies  His  teachings,  His
bounties,  His  perfections  and  His  spiritual  power,  was hidden and
concealed for two or  three  days  after  His  martyrdom,  and  was  not
resplendent  and  manifest.   No,  rather it was lost, for the believers
were few in number and were troubled and agitated.  The Cause of  Christ
was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became
assured and steadfast, and began to  serve  the  Cause  of  Christ,  and
resolved  to  spread  the  divine  teachings,  putting His counsels into
practice, and arising  to  serve  Him,  the  Reality  of  Christ  became
resplendent  and  His  bounty  appeared;  His  religion found  life; His
teachings and His admonitions  became  evident  and  visible.  In  other
words,  the  cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and
bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was  a  true
resurrection.   But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of
the the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols,  therefore,  it  has  been
said  that  religion  is  in  contradiction  to  science, and science in
opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of  the  ascension
of  Christ  with  an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to
the science of mathematics.  But when the truth of this subject  becomes
clear,  and  the  symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it;
but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it."

SOME ANSWERED QUESTIONS, Abdu'l-Baha, p 103-105


Regards,
Verbus M. Counts   AT&T Bell Labs             The Word of God(religion) is one,
(201) 564-2510     101 JFK Parkway            though the speakers are many ...
ihnp4!pata!vca     Room 1L-423
March 24,1985      Short Hills, NJ 07078                  The Baha'i Faith

root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) (03/28/85)

> "Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection  after  three
> days?
> Answer. -- The resurrection of the Divine Manifestations are not of the
> body....

That's an answer?

> Beside these explanations,  it   has  been  established  and  proved  by
> science  that  the  visible  heaven is a limitless area, void and empty,
> where innumerable stars and planets revolve.

Wrong... science has yet to conclude whether the universe is open-ended
or closed and thus has not determined exactly how many stars and planets
there might be.

If the universe WERE infinite, however, the number of stars and planets
would still be countable, although infinite in number.  I expected a
lot more from someone who worked for Bell Labs.  So much for scientific
proof.

> therefore it has been said  that  religion  is  in  contradiction  to
> science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this
> subject of  the  ascension of  Christ  with  an elemental body to the
> visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics.  But when the
> truth of this subject  becomes clear,  and  the  symbol is explained,
> science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the
> intelligence affirm it."

> SOME ANSWERED QUESTIONS, Abdu'l-Baha, p 103-105

In other words it ISN'T an answer.
-- 


UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root	- Lord Frith
ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO

"And Frith made the world"

root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) (03/29/85)

> "Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection  after  three
> days?
> Answer. -- The resurrection of the Divine Manifestations are not of the
> body....

That's an answer?

> Beside these explanations,  it   has  been  established  and  proved  by
> science  that  the  visible  heaven is a limitless area, void and empty,
> where innumerable stars and planets revolve.

Wrong... science has yet to conclude whether the universe is open-ended
or closed and thus has not determined exactly how many stars and planets
there might be.

If the universe WERE infinite, however, the number of stars and planets
would still be countable, although infinite in number.  I expected a
lot more from someone who worked for Bell Labs.  So much for scientific
proof.

> therefore it has been said  that  religion  is  in  contradiction  to
> science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this
> subject of  the  ascension of  Christ  with  an elemental body to the
> visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics.  But when the
> truth of this subject  becomes clear,  and  the  symbol is explained,
> science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the
> intelligence affirm it."

> SOME ANSWERED QUESTIONS, Abdu'l-Baha, p 103-105

In other words it ISN'T an answer.
-- 


UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root	- Lord Frith
ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO

"And Frith made the world"
-- 


UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root	- Lord Frith
ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO

"And Frith made the world"

larryg@teklds.UUCP (Larry Gardner) (04/02/85)

Why must the Bible be made to fit in with science?  

If you believe in the Bible, which it appears you do, how can you
ignore the literalness of the disciples seeing, touching, and talking
with Jesus after He was raised (physically) from the dead.  Paul in
the epistles explains that if we believe in Jesus and He did not
(materially) rise from the dead, then we are to be most pitied.

The significance of Jesus' resurrection?  ALL OF CHRISTIANITY STANDS ON IT!!!!!

It means we serve a living God!! JESUS!!!  That sets Him apart from Mohammed
and any other "man".  It means we can know Jesus today because He LIVES!

So what if the Bible "appears" to conflict with science?  I don't really
know of anything that does conflict as of yet.  (here comes the responses,
I can see them now... :) ).

Make your choice, believe in ONENESS or whatever you want, but don't include
Jesus because He didn't, and doesn't teach that!

He said, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO MAN COME TO THE FATHER
	 BUT THROUGH ME.

	 karen

mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (04/04/85)

In article <514@teklds.UUCP> larryg@teklds.UUCP (Karen Clark) writes:
> It means we serve a living God!! JESUS!!!  That sets Him apart from Mohammed
> and any other "man".  It means we can know Jesus today because He LIVES!

At least one Jewish prophet (Elijah?) was assumed bodily to heaven.  I don't
recall if Mohammed was.  So, presumably, Elijah lives also.

I'd think you Xians would at least get your Bible facts straight.
-- 

Mike Huybensz		...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh

Keebler@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA (Keebler) (04/12/85)

___________________________________________________________________

> Why must the Bible be made to fit in with science?

It doesn't.

> If you believe in the Bible, which it appears you do, how can you
> ignore  the  literalness  of  the disciples seeing, touching, and
> talking with Jesus after He  was  raised  (physically)  from  the
> dead.   Paul in the epistles explains that if we believe in Jesus
> and He did not (materially) rise from the dead, then we are to be
> most pitied.
> 
> The significance of Jesus'  resurrection?   ALL  OF  CHRISTIANITY
> STANDS ON IT!!!!!

All the more reason you would want to ignore anything else which
might contradict your beliefs if you hold your beliefs dearly.

> It means we serve a living God!! JESUS!!!  That  sets  Him  apart
> from  Mohammed  and  any other "man".  It means we can know Jesus
> today because He LIVES!
>
> So what if the Bible "appears" to conflict with science?  I don't
> really  know  of  anything  that  does conflict as of yet.  (here
> comes the responses, I can see them now... :) ).

Well, here's one of many which you expect:  A good example is the
references to a flat earth.  Another, which is being debated in
net.origins, is the entire process of evolution.  If you consider
yourself to be in basically the same frame of mind as the theis-
tic evolutionists--that is, you take the book of Genesis and/or
the history written in the Bible as metaphorical/allegorical,
rather than literal--then the conflict eases considerably.  The
Bible necessarily conflicts with science on areas of supernatural
occurances, such as the Resurrection.  Even if Christ did come
back to life, science could not possibly explain it in terms of
spiritual revival/Divine interference/etc ...  That is forbidden
in science since a fundamental assumption in science is that na-
ture is consistent and independent, thus automatically excluding
supernatural explanations for events.  There are also the problems
with new discoveries.  Suppose one found a way to revive someone
after death through some drug.  What are the implications for the
resurrection of Jesus?  For one thing, straightforward proofs of
his revival will not serve as evidence of Divine interference (or
whatever), since it is proven to be possible through natural means.
(We currently consider it to be impossible, so we can consider a
proof of the resurrection of Jesus to be proof of Divine inter-
ference or whatever; outside of science, of course.)

> Make your choice, believe in ONENESS or whatever  you  want,  but
> don't include Jesus because He didn't, and doesn't teach that!
>
> He said, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO MAN COME TO THE
> FATHER BUT THROUGH ME.
>
> karen

I personally find it hard to believe that there is anything that is
strictly outside of nature.  But then again, perhaps Someone might
prove me wrong.
___________________________________________________________________

Live long and prosper.

Keebler { hua@cmu-cs-gandalf.arpa }

larryg@teklds.UUCP (Larry Gardner) (04/19/85)

o.k.  where does the Bible say the earth is flat????

karen