vc@hou2h.UUCP (Verbus M. Counts) (03/25/85)
"Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection after three days? Answer. -- The resurrection of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things. For example, there is the subject of Christ's coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find: " And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?" Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then , that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension. Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, where innumerable stars and planets revolve. Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it. Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it." SOME ANSWERED QUESTIONS, Abdu'l-Baha, p 103-105 Regards, Verbus M. Counts AT&T Bell Labs The Word of God(religion) is one, (201) 564-2510 101 JFK Parkway though the speakers are many ... ihnp4!pata!vca Room 1L-423 March 24,1985 Short Hills, NJ 07078 The Baha'i Faith
root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) (03/28/85)
> "Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection after three > days? > Answer. -- The resurrection of the Divine Manifestations are not of the > body.... That's an answer? > Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by > science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, > where innumerable stars and planets revolve. Wrong... science has yet to conclude whether the universe is open-ended or closed and thus has not determined exactly how many stars and planets there might be. If the universe WERE infinite, however, the number of stars and planets would still be countable, although infinite in number. I expected a lot more from someone who worked for Bell Labs. So much for scientific proof. > therefore it has been said that religion is in contradiction to > science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this > subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the > visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the > truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, > science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the > intelligence affirm it." > SOME ANSWERED QUESTIONS, Abdu'l-Baha, p 103-105 In other words it ISN'T an answer. -- UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root - Lord Frith ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO "And Frith made the world"
root@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) (03/29/85)
> "Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection after three > days? > Answer. -- The resurrection of the Divine Manifestations are not of the > body.... That's an answer? > Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by > science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, > where innumerable stars and planets revolve. Wrong... science has yet to conclude whether the universe is open-ended or closed and thus has not determined exactly how many stars and planets there might be. If the universe WERE infinite, however, the number of stars and planets would still be countable, although infinite in number. I expected a lot more from someone who worked for Bell Labs. So much for scientific proof. > therefore it has been said that religion is in contradiction to > science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this > subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the > visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the > truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, > science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the > intelligence affirm it." > SOME ANSWERED QUESTIONS, Abdu'l-Baha, p 103-105 In other words it ISN'T an answer. -- UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root - Lord Frith ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO "And Frith made the world" -- UUCP: ...{decvax,ihnp4,allegra}!seismo!trwatf!root - Lord Frith ARPA: trwatf!root@SEISMO "And Frith made the world"
larryg@teklds.UUCP (Larry Gardner) (04/02/85)
Why must the Bible be made to fit in with science? If you believe in the Bible, which it appears you do, how can you ignore the literalness of the disciples seeing, touching, and talking with Jesus after He was raised (physically) from the dead. Paul in the epistles explains that if we believe in Jesus and He did not (materially) rise from the dead, then we are to be most pitied. The significance of Jesus' resurrection? ALL OF CHRISTIANITY STANDS ON IT!!!!! It means we serve a living God!! JESUS!!! That sets Him apart from Mohammed and any other "man". It means we can know Jesus today because He LIVES! So what if the Bible "appears" to conflict with science? I don't really know of anything that does conflict as of yet. (here comes the responses, I can see them now... :) ). Make your choice, believe in ONENESS or whatever you want, but don't include Jesus because He didn't, and doesn't teach that! He said, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO MAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH ME. karen
mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) (04/04/85)
In article <514@teklds.UUCP> larryg@teklds.UUCP (Karen Clark) writes: > It means we serve a living God!! JESUS!!! That sets Him apart from Mohammed > and any other "man". It means we can know Jesus today because He LIVES! At least one Jewish prophet (Elijah?) was assumed bodily to heaven. I don't recall if Mohammed was. So, presumably, Elijah lives also. I'd think you Xians would at least get your Bible facts straight. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh
Keebler@cmu-cs-edu1.ARPA (Keebler) (04/12/85)
___________________________________________________________________ > Why must the Bible be made to fit in with science? It doesn't. > If you believe in the Bible, which it appears you do, how can you > ignore the literalness of the disciples seeing, touching, and > talking with Jesus after He was raised (physically) from the > dead. Paul in the epistles explains that if we believe in Jesus > and He did not (materially) rise from the dead, then we are to be > most pitied. > > The significance of Jesus' resurrection? ALL OF CHRISTIANITY > STANDS ON IT!!!!! All the more reason you would want to ignore anything else which might contradict your beliefs if you hold your beliefs dearly. > It means we serve a living God!! JESUS!!! That sets Him apart > from Mohammed and any other "man". It means we can know Jesus > today because He LIVES! > > So what if the Bible "appears" to conflict with science? I don't > really know of anything that does conflict as of yet. (here > comes the responses, I can see them now... :) ). Well, here's one of many which you expect: A good example is the references to a flat earth. Another, which is being debated in net.origins, is the entire process of evolution. If you consider yourself to be in basically the same frame of mind as the theis- tic evolutionists--that is, you take the book of Genesis and/or the history written in the Bible as metaphorical/allegorical, rather than literal--then the conflict eases considerably. The Bible necessarily conflicts with science on areas of supernatural occurances, such as the Resurrection. Even if Christ did come back to life, science could not possibly explain it in terms of spiritual revival/Divine interference/etc ... That is forbidden in science since a fundamental assumption in science is that na- ture is consistent and independent, thus automatically excluding supernatural explanations for events. There are also the problems with new discoveries. Suppose one found a way to revive someone after death through some drug. What are the implications for the resurrection of Jesus? For one thing, straightforward proofs of his revival will not serve as evidence of Divine interference (or whatever), since it is proven to be possible through natural means. (We currently consider it to be impossible, so we can consider a proof of the resurrection of Jesus to be proof of Divine inter- ference or whatever; outside of science, of course.) > Make your choice, believe in ONENESS or whatever you want, but > don't include Jesus because He didn't, and doesn't teach that! > > He said, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, NO MAN COME TO THE > FATHER BUT THROUGH ME. > > karen I personally find it hard to believe that there is anything that is strictly outside of nature. But then again, perhaps Someone might prove me wrong. ___________________________________________________________________ Live long and prosper. Keebler { hua@cmu-cs-gandalf.arpa }
larryg@teklds.UUCP (Larry Gardner) (04/19/85)
o.k. where does the Bible say the earth is flat???? karen