wkp@lanl.ARPA (04/23/85)
In article <5090@umcp-cs.UUCP> mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) writes: >On the other hand, the uproar over the cemetery visit seems to me to be a >bit much. Certainly Reagan should not put himself in the position of >honoring the death camps and those who worked in them; but saying that no >German soldiers may be honored as a result seems to me to border on race >hatred, and by the very group that ought to know better. I don't see much >evidence that the average German soldier could have influenced things one >way or another, and it's perverse to take out one's hatred on modern >Germany, the majority of who's citizens weren't even born. >Those who condemn Reagan's cemetery visit ought to propose another way to >honor the German war dead. Charley, I've had it with your distribution features. How dare you accuse the Jews of race hatred. How dare you say that they're perverse for taking out their "hatred on modern Germany." Aren't you ashamed to be always spouting anti-semitic vitriol on this net? Go take a bath. When you want to honor your Anglican Church do you visit the grave of Jack the Ripper? When you wish to show solidarity with people named "Charles", do you light a candle for Charles Manson? Your statement about the average German soldier is an affront to Christian civilization. Not being able to influence things one way or another is a poor excuse for introducing people to Zyklon-B. Maybe that's what you would have done. But at least a few Christians (like Bonhoeffer) died for their beliefs. Finally, if you want to honor German war dead, visit the graves of Bonhoeffer and other resistance fighters. Visit the graves of German citizens who died for simply being Jews. To visit the graves of mass-murdering monsters to show solidarity with a nation is even below a Charley Wingate. What's your next idea, Chuckles? Maybe going on a picnic to celebrate the massacres of the American Indians? -- bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp
brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard Brower) (04/30/85)
In article <24898@lanl.ARPA> wkp@lanl.ARPA writes: > Your statement about the average German soldier is an affront to > Christian civilization. Not being able to influence things one way > or another is a poor excuse for introducing people to Zyklon-B. > Maybe that's what you would have done. But at least a few Christians > (like Bonhoeffer) died for their beliefs. > > Finally, if you want to honor German war dead, visit the graves of > Bonhoeffer and other resistance fighters. Visit the graves of German > citizens who died for simply being Jews. > > To visit the graves of mass-murdering monsters to show solidarity > with a nation is even below a Charley Wingate. What's your next idea, > Chuckles? Maybe going on a picnic to celebrate the massacres of the > American Indians? >-- > >bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp Now hold on a second, here. Should we take American soldiers who died fighting American Indians out of our National Cemeteries because it was genocide they were performing? How about Viet Nam dead? It seems to be the national consensus that that war was wrong. Isn't there some chance we will do them honor by leaving them there? Well, I do not think so. Those poor guys were just out doing a job for their country. It may have been a job that should not have been done, but there are laws and rules that soldiers must follow. And they deserve honor. While I in no way wish to do any honor to SS Death Camp Goons, let us not be so down on the poor soldier who was doing his job. Some, perhaps most even, of the people buried in that graveyard were just soldiers fighting for their homeland and country. In that, they may have been misguided, suckered, and lied to. Many people, including you apparently, seem to want to blame the whole German people for the actions of WWII, but this is just as wrong as the actions you comdemn. German soldiers, not involved in the death camps, deserve honor for being good soldiers just as dead American soldiers do. Not everybody can be a resistance hero. -- Richard A. Brower Fortune Systems {ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower
wkp@lanl.ARPA (05/01/85)
In article <5223@fortune.UUCP> brower@fortune (Richard Brower) writes: >Now hold on a second, here. Should we take American soldiers who died >fighting American Indians out of our National Cemeteries because it was >genocide they were performing? On the other hand, should we ask American Indians to come and lay wreaths on the killers of their ancestors? >It may have been a job that should not have been done, but there are laws >and rules that soldiers must follow. And they deserve honor. The question is: honor from whom? From the descendants of the murdered? Then why doesn't Reagan go to Japan and lay a wreath on the graves of those Japanese who attacked Pearl Harbor? How about getting the Armenians to lay wreaths on the graves of Turkish soldiers? In what way do we honor modern Germany by honoring the butchers of Oradour-sur-Glane? (The French are really pleased about that, I'm sure!) >Many people, including you apparently, seem to >want to blame the whole German people for the actions of WWII, but this >is just as wrong as the actions you comdemn. German soldiers, not involved >in the death camps, deserve honor for being good soldiers just as dead >American soldiers do. Not everybody can be a resistance hero. Please don't put words in my mouth. It's really unfair. I do not condemn the entire German people for the actions of the Nazis. All I ask is that another way be found to show our friendship with the German people. Like honoring the dead of Dresden, or Bonhoeffer, or German civilians killed by American troops. Why does the German government insist we show our friendship by honoring the graves of mass murderers? Must 40-year-old Jewish graves be desecrated in order to rehabilitate Helmut Schmidt? -- bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp
brower@fortune.UUCP (Richard Brower) (05/10/85)
In article <25249@lanl.ARPA> wkp@lanl.ARPA writes: > On the other hand, should we ask American Indians to come and lay > wreaths on the killers of their ancestors? We do, every Memorial Day. > Then why doesn't Reagan go to Japan and lay a wreath on the > graves of those Japanese who attacked Pearl Harbor? He should. > In what way do we honor modern Germany by honoring > the butchers of Oradour-sur-Glane? (The French are really pleased > about that, I'm sure!) He is honoring the other people in the graveyard, not the butchers. >>Many people, including you apparently, seem to >>want to blame the whole German people for the actions of WWII, but this >>is just as wrong as the actions you comdemn. German soldiers, not involved >>in the death camps, deserve honor for being good soldiers just as dead >>American soldiers do. Not everybody can be a resistance hero. > > Please don't put words in my mouth. It's really unfair. I do not > condemn the entire German people for the actions of the Nazis. All > I ask is that another way be found to show our friendship with the > German people. Like honoring the dead of Dresden, or Bonhoeffer, or > German civilians killed by American troops. But you sprinkle terms like "German pigs" in several postings of yours that I have seen. This term is precisely the same type of term as "Jewish pigs" is. > Why does the German government insist we show our friendship by > honoring the graves of mass murderers? Think of him as honoring the principles of courage and bravery that are shared by the majority of soldiers everywhere. It will make you feel better. > Must 40-year-old Jewish > graves be desecrated in order to rehabilitate Helmut Schmidt? I didn't hear about this, who are they digging up? >bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp Richard A. Brower Fortune Systems {ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower