[net.religion] Re*2 Omnipotence, justice and suffering: a very long question.

steiny@scc.UUCP (Don Steiny) (08/02/85)

>
> In article <521@scc.UUCP> steiny@scc.UUCP (Don Steiny) writes:
> 
> >	I am amazed that you would believe that I am a Christian
> >or something like that.  I am an agnostic too!    
> 
> I must have misread your posting, so I apologize. 

	Whew! I'm glad we got that straightned out.  Next thing you
know people would be asking me for donations. :-)

> 
> Proper and improper behavior is a matter of social consensus not
> individual choice. The definitions may change through time and across
> cultures, but there's always a core that most people in a society will
> agree on. The decision to act only in one's own self interest seems
> barbaric to me because it runs contrary to that which makes us most
> human: the social contract we sign with our fellow human beings when
> we come into the world.
>                  -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly

	I understand your point, but our differences might be
only superficial.    Human beings are unarguably social
creatures.  One of the more important differences between
people and other creatures is our lanugage use, and that
requires several users.   For a creature that is organized
the way we are, generally, if it is beneficial to everyone
then it is beneficial to an individual.  We an't go off and
live on an  island like Robinson Caruso.   We are like
prairie dogs, bees, and many other types of animals.  We
are social animals and humans depend on societies  humans
for survival.   It is easy to think of a hive of bees as
a single organism with many parts, like cells in our
bodies.   The analogy is not as easy to make with humans,
but though it is weaker if it holds at all it would 
give a biological reason that there would no benefit
to individual humans to do something that would
greatly degrade the lives around them.  

	Even if this theory it too weak at the biological level it  
certainly provides a philosophical foundation.   If people believe
that the best intrestest of those around are also their best
interests, then, to further  their own self-interest they  would
want to improve the quality of life of those around them.

	I have done volunteer reading and writing tutoring (never spelling).
Just think.  I have  read time and time again that the better educated
people  are the  less likely they are to wind up on welfare.  If 
I help someone learn to read, that person is less  likely to
end  up on welfare, which I ultimately pay for with my taxes.
Likewise, if I hurt someone  and others find out about it,
I am sure I would not have as many pleasant relationships
as I do now.  I am considered to be pretty friendly and
not one to try to hurt peoples feelings.

	Since we exist in society, we need to follow society's
rules.  It is in a persons best intrest to get along in the
society he or she lives in.

	Of course, that is easy for me to say.  I have just
been reading about the Ik of Uganda. (pronounced Eek).
They through their children out of the house at 3 years old.
If a person is too old, sick, or otherwise unable to feed
him or herself,  their fellow Iks let them die.  They never
have enough food, they have been starving for generations.

	The  Iks have no word for altruism.  "Good" means
"food",  a "good man" is one with a full stomach.  
They live in an harsh environment.  There is not enough
to go around.   Each Ik eats when and where they can and
they never share.  

It is interesting to know that people like that exist.  
It suggests than in general people do act in their
own self-interest, and it is highly unusual circumstances
where that translates to "every person for themselves."


-- 
scc!steiny
Don Steiny @ Don Steiny Software
109 Torrey Pine Terrace
Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060