black@pundit.DEC (DON BLACK DTN 261-2739 MS: NIO/N13 LOC: POLE C6) (07/30/85)
Rich Rosen proclaims: >Subject: Liberty Lobby Lawsuit >Posted: Fri Jul 26 13:17:44 1985 > >I just heard last night that the Liberty Lobby, a neo-fascist organization >that purportedly put up a large sum of money to anyone who could prove >the existence of the Holocaust (hoping that no one would come forward to >stand up to such a boorish claim, thus "proving" their point that it never >happened), got its just desserts. > >A judge ordered Liberty Lobby to pay a Holocaust survivor $90,000 as a >fulfillment of their "outstanding challenge", and apparently they were >forced by the judge to publicly accept and acknowledge the fact that the >Holocaust did occur. Somehow, Rich, your information is flawed as usual. The group that was the object of the lawsuit is the Institute for Historical Review, in Torrence, California. The Institute has little or no direct connection with the pro-American, pro-freedom, pro-civil rights Liberty Lobby. This lawsuit was just one more act of terrorism perpetrated by the illegal Jewish Defense League and its minions. They couldn't BOMB the I.H.R. out of existance, so now it's lawsuit time. (On July 4, 1984, the library of the I.H.R. was forcibly entered and firebombed by a professional arsonist. The Jewish Defense League provided the police with the name of the arsonist. J.D.L. members were photographed dancing in the ashes. Prior to the fire, the library had been the target of vandalism and picketing by the J.D.L. Recently, the J.D.L. has taken credit for harassing workers and officials of the I.H.R. And this is America????) The fellow who "won" the suit was awarded the sum of $50,000 for the reward money, and a penalty of $40,000 to $100,000 for "proving" that the Holocaust actually took place. As for the I.H.R. recanting, don't hold your breath. You may control the courts, but you don't yet control freedom of expression in the U.S. >They hoped that we would all find the claim so disgusting that we would >all ignore it. Personally I'm glad someone chose not to. Nope. Suits like this can't be ignored. It brings the subject out into the open, into the court of Public Opinion. The trial transcripts are public record. It won't take long before the truth---one way or the other--- comes out. >No, it probably won't shut them up. (Comments, Mr. Black? Mr. Frith?) It sure won't. In fact, it gives us more ammunition. >(Could someone elaborate on the sketchy details I acquired?) Read all about it in "The Spotlight," the weekly newspaper of the American Populist Party. Let me leave with an anecdote that I heard about "getting even:" There once was a cayote who liked to ravage the sheep of this one Old Farmer named Clem. So Clem put out a trap, and sure enough, the cayote got hisself caught. Clem had bought a brand new pick-um-up truck, as Old Farmers are inclined to do. He and his friend, Si, were out drivin' around the countryside in the new truck, when they came across the cayote in the trap. Si grabbed his 30-Aught-6, chambered a round, and said, "Clem, now's our chance. I'm gonna finish off that cayote once and for all." Clem thought for a minute. "Now you hold on just a durned minute, Si! Shootin's too good for that ol' cayote. I lost two hundred sheep to him. I want to make him sufffer a little before he dies." So Clem blindfolded that old critter, tied a stick of dynamite to his tail, lit the fuse, and opened the trap. Now this cayote's momma didn't raise any fools. He ran and hid right underneath that brand new pick-up truck. 'Nuff said, Rich?
tischler@ihlpg.UUCP (Mark D. Tischler) (07/31/85)
Don't you just hate these damn cry babies, Rich? People like Don Black don't know how to take defeat. Obviously, their mothers coddled them when they were young. I feel sorry for people like Don Black -- they can't take what they dish out. Ever notice how groups like the Jews, who are continually spit upon, don't go crying through the streets. What d'ya say, Rich, let's heap it on this sore loser this time! Oh, yes. I found it amusing that Black thinks that two contradictory terms like "Liberty Lobby" and "pro-American, pro-freedom, pro-civil-rights" go together. Hahahahahahahaha! -- Mark Tischler (312) 393-7199 (home) (312) 979-5123 (work) ihnp4!ihlpg!tischler
smb@ulysses.UUCP (Steven Bellovin) (07/31/85)
I don't know why I bother to respond to Black, but I suppose I shouldn't let his Big Lies go unchallenged. My comments are based on several stories from the Associated Press, an organization I trust rather more than the "newspaper" Black cites. > Rich Rosen proclaims: > > >Subject: Liberty Lobby Lawsuit > >Posted: Fri Jul 26 13:17:44 1985 > > > >I just heard last night that the Liberty Lobby, a neo-fascist organization > >that purportedly put up a large sum of money to anyone who could prove > >the existence of the Holocaust (hoping that no one would come forward to > >stand up to such a boorish claim, thus "proving" their point that it never > >happened), got its just desserts. > > > >A judge ordered Liberty Lobby to pay a Holocaust survivor $90,000 as a > >fulfillment of their "outstanding challenge", and apparently they were > >forced by the judge to publicly accept and acknowledge the fact that the > >Holocaust did occur. > > Somehow, Rich, your information is flawed as usual. The group that was > the object of the lawsuit is the Institute for Historical Review, in Torrence, > California. The Institute has little or no direct connection with the > pro-American, pro-freedom, pro-civil rights Liberty Lobby. The suit was filed against the IHR, the Liberty Lobby, and Willis Carto, described by the AP as the "lobby treasurer and founder of the Institute". The article also alluded to other defendants, but did not list them by name. > > This lawsuit was just one more act of terrorism perpetrated by the > illegal Jewish Defense League and its minions. They couldn't BOMB the > I.H.R. out of existance, so now it's lawsuit time. Why is a lawsuit an "act of terrorism"? > (On July 4, 1984, the library of the I.H.R. was forcibly entered > and firebombed by a professional arsonist. The Jewish Defense League > provided the police with the name of the arsonist. J.D.L. members were > photographed dancing in the ashes. Prior to the fire, the library had > been the target of vandalism and picketing by the J.D.L. Recently, > the J.D.L. has taken credit for harassing workers and officials of the > I.H.R. And this is America????) I condemn the actions of whoever bombed that building -- I *don't* support that sort of shit, even against the likes of the IHR. Picketing, however, is a perfectly reasonable exercise of First Amendment rights -- the same rights I support for you, as much as it pains me. > The fellow who "won" the suit was awarded the sum of $50,000 for the > reward money, and a penalty of $40,000 to $100,000 for "proving" that the > Holocaust actually took place. Mr. Mermelstein received a letter from the IHR challenging him to prove that the Holocaust occurred, or have the fact of his refusal publicized. He's a camp survivor (who no doubt tattooed a number on his arm because he likes seeing digits) who watched his family killed at Auschwitz. He submitted assorted evidence to the IHR, which -- of course -- ignored it. He sued for the promised amount plus damages. > As for the I.H.R. recanting, don't hold your breath. You may control > the courts, but you don't yet control freedom of expression in the U.S. As part of the settlement, the defense attorneys offered a formal apology, and agreed to accept a 1981 ruling that the reality of the Holocaust is a "indisputable fact" [quote from the AP story, not necessarily the settlement]. Folks from the IHR were later quoted as saying that they didn't really believe all that, but that the settlement was an economic decision. Might make for an interesting perjury case, if the recantation was made under oath... > >They hoped that we would all find the claim so disgusting that we would > >all ignore it. Personally I'm glad someone chose not to. > > Nope. Suits like this can't be ignored. It brings the subject out > into the open, into the court of Public Opinion. The trial transcripts are > public record. It won't take long before the truth---one way or the other--- > comes out. > > >No, it probably won't shut them up. (Comments, Mr. Black? Mr. Frith?) > > It sure won't. In fact, it gives us more ammunition. > > >(Could someone elaborate on the sketchy details I acquired?) > > Read all about it in "The Spotlight," the weekly newspaper of the > American Populist Party. A "trial transcript" should be quite interesting, because the case was settled *before* the trial started -- the trial was due to start August 5...
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (07/31/85)
> Somehow, Rich, your information is flawed as usual. The group that was > the object of the lawsuit is the Institute for Historical Review, in Torrence, > California. The Institute has little or no direct connection with the > pro-American, pro-freedom, pro-civil rights Liberty Lobby. Except for Willis Carto, officer in all the mentioned organizations (including your Populist Party which you mentioned later). > This lawsuit was just one more act of terrorism perpetrated by the > illegal Jewish Defense League and its minions. They couldn't BOMB the > I.H.R. out of existance, so now it's lawsuit time. Did YOU see the Jewish Defense League there? I didn't. Where were they? Assuming again? What happened was that evidence was provided and evaluated. Imagine that. Real analysis rather than assumption that one's preconceived conclusions are the correct answers. Something you could learn about one day. > The fellow who "won" the suit was awarded the sum of $50,000 for the > reward money, and a penalty of $40,000 to $100,000 for "proving" that the > Holocaust actually took place. > > As for the I.H.R. recanting, don't hold your breath. You may control > the courts, but you don't yet control freedom of expression in the U.S. They were made to admit publicly that the preponderence of evidence proved the facts about the Holocaust. And they did. They of course denied their own admission later on, but it is on record. You can only ignore facts and live on presumption for so long before it catches up with you in the real world. >>They hoped that we would all find the claim so disgusting that we would >>all ignore it. Personally I'm glad someone chose not to. > Nope. Suits like this can't be ignored. It brings the subject out > into the open, into the court of Public Opinion. The trial transcripts are > public record. It won't take long before the truth---one way or the other--- > comes out. You're right. I'm glad that it now HAS come out. >>(Could someone elaborate on the sketchy details I acquired?) > Read all about it in "The Spotlight," the weekly newspaper of the > American Populist Party. No, I prefer to read factual accounts of events. -- Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen. Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr
arig@cvl.UUCP (Ari Gross) (08/07/85)
> > This lawsuit was just one more act of terrorism perpetrated by the > illegal Jewish Defense League and its minions. They couldn't BOMB the > I.H.R. out of existance, so now it's lawsuit time. > > (On July 4, 1984, the library of the I.H.R. was forcibly entered > and firebombed by a professional arsonist. The Jewish Defense League > provided the police with the name of the arsonist. J.D.L. members were > photographed dancing in the ashes. Prior to the fire, the library had > been the target of vandalism and picketing by the J.D.L. Recently, > the J.D.L. has taken credit for harassing workers and officials of the > I.H.R. And this is America????) > Let's here it for the JDL!!! Jews were silent during the holocaust and paid a dear price for it ; should we make that same mistake again? As former Prime Minister Begin writes in "The Revolt": Jews used to say "we think, therefore we are", and were nevertheless turned into bars of soap . Let us say instead "we fight, therefore we are". If there is one thing that Jewish people should have learned from the holocaust it is not to sit passively by and let the world determine your fate; don't turn the other cheek when confronted by hatred and anti-semitism. To the Don Blacks of this world and their ilk let us say NEVER AGAIN. Ari Gross