pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman) (09/05/85)
Yosi, You say I am making the same presumption as the religionists' side. I wonder how the God whorshipers feel about that. I would think they feel as I do, each believing that it is the other who is making the wrong assumption. Yet you say that both of us are doing this. You contend that it is the evil of men that invented a fictitious evil God to enslave other men, and justify their evil in the name of the evil (but said to be ``good'') God. I must say that I believed this myself for a time, but I came to realize otherwise. As an example, take the efforts of human beings, planned and re-planned with every precaution taken, which go awry for no apparent reason. Machines that break. Projects that fail. Things that simply fall apart from what gets refered to as natural decay. Now, I ask you, which is sillier? Believing that this natural decay simply exists as a unique unbalanced force given the name ``entropy,'' or believing that this decay is the deliberate action of a malicious force, an evil deity, a Damager-God? The God whorshipers attribute good things to the work of God, but I can't see a very good reason for it. Conversely, I attribute the evil, damaging events to God for the reasons I give above. This is even documented in the Bible, with many examples already offered (the Tower of Babel, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart, the entire Book of Job), so we know we are both talking about the same God. On the other hand, Yosi, you attribute neither to a deliberate willful force. Given the nature of good things, which we have to work for, and evil things, which seem to happen BY THEMSELVES, with what seems to be a will of their own, can you in all conscience say that good and evil can be treated equally in terms of what we attribute them to? Be well, -- Paul Zimmerman - AT&T Bell Laboratories pyuxn!pez
jho@ihu1m.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) (09/07/85)
Paul Zimmerman: > that simply fall apart from what gets referred to as natural decay. > Now, I ask you, which is sillier? Believing that this natural decay > simply exists as a unique unbalanced force given the name ``entropy,'' > or believing that this decay is the deliberate action of a malicious > force, an evil deity, a Damager-God? I think it is very difficult to measure silliness, but it is quite clear that your view of nature is very silly. I admire your ability to express yourself, yet, it is clear that you do not have a scientific understanding. Science can explain entropy and decay very well. There is nothing mysterious about them, they fit very well within the framework of the natural laws. You may say that god is responsible for the laws of nature. But then we could ask ourselves who is responsible for the "existence" of god. It is unlikely that we could understand why the natural laws are the way they are. Adding the god axiom does not solve this problem. > the reasons I give above. This is even documented in the Bible, with > many examples already offered (the Tower of Babel, the hardening of > Pharaoh's heart, the entire Book of Job), so we know we are both > talking about the same God. How can we take the fairy tails of Genesis as facts. You said that god is a liar, so by your standards how can we trust the word of the bible. -- Yosi Hoshen, AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, Illinois, Mail: ihnp4!ihu1m!jho