[net.religion] Gnosticism: Is Satan an intermediary to the ultimate God or not?

pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman) (09/20/85)

	Steve Swope responded to my article on gnosticism by claiming that
what I was saying implied simply that God and Satan were not the same.
What you forgot, Steve, is that I also said that gnosticism is rife with
the same assumption that other God whorshiping religions make. That
assumption is that the ultimate God must be good. I don't believe that for
a minute. If God exists as you picture Him and Satan exists as some
stumbling block between us and the ``good'' God, then why has a ``good''
God left such a stumbling block between Him and us? Any explanation you
come up with has got to be incredibly distorted for the purpose of maintaining
the belief in a benevolent God. Why not simply accept the fact that if the
evidence is there in favor of some evil deity (and you would seem to admit
that), then either he is the ultimate God himself (which is what I believe),
or at best, his ``boss'' is no better than he is. It is not an issue of
naming, it is an issue of misnaming, and attributing separate names to God
for when He visibly engages in evil (a ``nomme de mal'') and for when He
claims to be the almighty good. Certainly God has taken no steps to eradicate
Satan (wouldn't that be suicide of a sort?). In fact, He has propped him
(Himself) up as the ruler of the domain of earthly souls.

Be well,
-- 
Paul Zimmerman - AT&T Bell Laboratories
pyuxn!pez

bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron C. Howes) (09/23/85)

In article <353@pyuxn.UUCP> pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman) writes:
>
>What you forgot, Steve, is that I also said that gnosticism is rife with
>the same assumption that other God whorshiping religions make. That
>assumption is that the ultimate God must be good.

(*sigh*) That simply isn't true.  Gnostics believe that the "ultimate G-d"
(your words, not mine) is beyond notions of good and evil and the sort of
direct interference that is implied by such notions.

Satan does not exist, or at least is imprecisely defined, in the context
of Gnostic belief.  There are those who espouse Satan as a facet of the
Demiurge, an idea which does clarify an inconsistant duality in christian
thought, but this Satan is not the soul-grabbing bearded nemesis of the
middle ages.

Gnostics are more concerned with the duality of the spiritual and the
material than in notions of good and evil Demiurges.
-- 

						Byron C. Howes
				      ...!{decvax,akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch

pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman) (10/01/85)

Byron,

	Saying that "God (the ultimate God or some intermediary OR the
only God, which ever it is) is beyond good and evil" is the same as making
God beyond our judgment, which is what the God whorshipers do. It also
makes assumptions about an ultimate God existing of necessity (and being
``good'') if the God we come into contact with is the pig monster we have
come to know.

Be well,
-- 
Paul Zimmerman - AT&T Bell Laboratories
pyuxn!pez