al@mot.UUCP (Al Filipski) (09/27/85)
> > > >using magic to do so, so this argument can't be carried too far. The main > >point has to be the distinction between fantasy and reality. > > Thank you, Frank, for getting to the heart of the matter. The > main point IS (emphasis mine) the distinction between fantasy and reality. > The Bible makes many injunctions against the use of witchcraft, sorcery, > and such like. Christians who are following the teachings of the Bible > MUST NOT engage in such activities. > If, in the course of a D&D game, the DM starts handing out spells > which have been in the past, or are currently being used by certain > religious groups (i.e. Satanists, Voo-Doo, etc.), the > play ceases to be fantasy and becomes reality no matter what your own > personal religious beliefs are. By reality I mean that someone once or > still takes them seriously. This is an unusual definition of reality. Does a Christian have to find out what everybody else's rituals are so that he can avoid them? If some fraud or mental case makes up a belief system with chants and gets others to adopt them, do the chants take on some power? It seems to me that a Christian who frames his outlook in this way is giving the "Satanists" a great deal of power as far as defining reality goes. Why should a Christian believe a Satanist when the latter makes some claim about what is real? Does believing in evil spirits mean believing everything anyone says about them? This is similar to the Christians who accept without question statements of "Satanists" about the vast extent of their conspiratorial activities. No offense meant to anybody by the above, just curious about people's criteria for judging what to believe. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Alan Filipski, UNIX group, Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ U.S.A {seismo|ihnp4}!ut-sally!oakhill!mot!al | ucbvax!arizona!asuvax!mot!al ------------------------------------------------------------------------
dorettas@iddic.UUCP (Doretta Schrock) (09/30/85)
... > >using magic to do so, so this argument can't be carried too far. The main > >point has to be the distinction between fantasy and reality. > > > Thank you, Frank, for getting to the heart of the matter. The > main point IS (emphasis mine) the distinction between fantasy and reality. > The Bible makes many injunctions against the use of witchcraft, sorcery, > and such like. Christians who are following the teachings of the Bible > MUST NOT engage in such activities. > If, in the course of a D&D game, the DM starts handing out spells > which have been in the past, or are currently being used by certain > religious groups (i.e. Satanists, Voo-Doo, etc.), the > play ceases to be fantasy and becomes reality no matter what your own > personal religious beliefs are. By reality I mean that someone once or > still takes them seriously. Really?! There are *many* things that people take seriously that are *simulated* in games of many types. This does not make the people who play the games the same as the people who engage in the activities themselves. This has so many examples that you'll forgive me if I leave them to your imagination (though remember not to imagine *too* much :-]). A simple rule of thumb: Fantasy is what you pay for (in whatever form). Reality is all too free. Mike Sellers "we are the Sultans of swing..."
ln63fac@sdcc7.UUCP (Rick Frey) (10/03/85)
Forgive me responding to the earlier article from your response, but I was unable to locate the original and I'm very much interested in this discussion having played D&D for 4+ years and having been a Christian (and still being one) at the time. Anyway, on with the response. > > The Bible makes many injunctions against the use of witchcraft, sorcery, > > and such like. Christians who are following the teachings of the Bible > > MUST NOT engage in such activities. Ok so far. Just for accuracy's sake, it's nice to include references with you whenever possible. I've been yelled at for paraphrasing and have had to go back numerous times all because I didn't give the reference(s) the first time. > > If, in the course of a D&D game, the DM starts handing out spells > > which have been in the past, or are currently being used by certain > > religious groups (i.e. Satanists, Voo-Doo, etc.), the > > play ceases to be fantasy and becomes reality no matter what your own > > personal religious beliefs are. By reality I mean that someone once or > > still takes them seriously. > This sure doesn't seem to be what Paul's saying in I Corinthians 10:25-29. "Eat anything that is sold in the meat market, without asking questions for the conscience's sake; For the earth is the Lord's, and all that it contains. If one of the unbelievers invites you, and you wish to go, eat anything set before you, without asking questions for conscience's sake. But if anyone should say to you, 'this meat this is meat sacrificed to idols', do not eat it, for the sake fo the one who informed you and for conscience's sake. I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's; for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience?" This last verse seems to sum up Paul's point, that the sacrificing meat to idols is not good (he says that earlier, vs. 20) but that we don't need to worry about it if it isn't us doing the sacrifice. To try to put it in the language of your own words, this is part of some evil/satanic religious' group's practices, but partaking of it does not reflect back on my spirituality. One last point to address that you might bring up is that playing D&D is optional, therefor it doesn't fit this example, but notice Paul says, "If you wish to go", not if it's your spiritual, God-commanded duty, but simply if you wish. Pauls goes so far as to say don't even worry about it enough to ask questions. As Christ says in Mark 7:15, "There is nothing outside the man which going into him can defile him; but the things which proceed out of the man are what defile the man." Rick Frey (...!ihnp4!sdcsvax!sdcc6!ix415)