pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman) (11/04/85)
Rick asked me a series of questions in his last article which I will attempt to answer here. > 1) How did the damager-God come about? Did he/it evolve? If so where are > the others or was there some big fight? If he/it was created, who created > he/she/it and what about them, who created them, etc. I'm not sure what your point in asking this question is. Obviously we may never know the details of how God came into existence, since there are no historical logs or artifacts that provide conclusive evidence. (And PLEASE don't say what about the Bible! You all can't be SO hardheaded that you do not see that the Bible can be thought of as being no more objective than a Nixon account of the Watergate crisis, or Caesar's journals of battle: the side of the author always shows that author in a positive light, so you cannot trust such accounts.) It sounds like you're going back to harping on your oft repeated point ``My God is not the same as your God.'' As if you could say in response ``Well, these characteristics you attribute to God don't apply to MY God, therefore you are not talking about the real God.'' Let it be said that the characteristics that YOU attribute to your God are based on faulty one-sided information in any case, isn't that so? Let it also be said that just as I don't have exact answers to your questions, you don't either. You have at least twice glossed over my point that if God were the ultimate creator of the ultimate universe, then the question of how His universe was created is in question. (Someone claimed that ``God doesn't have to live in a universe,'' but of course this is nonsense. The term ``universe'' is so loosely defined, meaning the space of existence, as to make such a claim meritless.) > 2) Scenario: You're 12 year old son says he didn't mow the lawn (when you > specifically asked him to) because the damager-God controlled his actions > and made him not do it. He uses the same excuse for taking drugs, stealing > and beating up other kids. How do you answer him? > > 3) To broaden this last one, how would you deal with a criminal who on the > stand said that he didn't want to kill all those people but the > damager-God made him. How do you punish someone for something they didn't > do or weren't the motivating force behind? Again (I know you don't like this), I will answer your question by asking one of you. You find a problem with my belief that it is the Damager-God who instills evil desires and actions in people, and you ask how one would deal with a criminal who made this claim. Well, Rick, let me ask you this. How do you deal with someone who claims that the good actions that he did himself were not his own doing, but done with the help of God? You see, your question cuts both ways. And given the nature of man being good in the absence of evil influences like God, it seems your beliefs in this area are a bit muddled. Even in your own belief structure, there is a ``Satan'' (really God, of course) who is needed to tempt people into doing evil: they do not engage in it on their own! I think that proves my point. > 4) Why do we have a Bible that tells people to look for the good, ignore the > evil, be joyful in tribulation, praise God when things go bad, love you > neighbors, treat other people as more important than yourselves when all > these things will make people get along much happier rather than teachings > like go ahead and divorce your wife if you don't like her and if someone > hurts you go ahead and get them back. Why would an evil God write or > inspire a book that teaches people how to live together peacefully? But it's clear He has done no such thing! Look at what this Bible has taught your fellow Christians over the last two thousand years: to engage in evil! The Spanish Inquisition, the Nazi holocaust, the modern day radical fundamentalists, and so on, are all just a small subset of the examples of God's evil throughout history. And of course the Bible itself is full of so many others that served as inspiration (and justification) for the latter day evils. Answer your own question: HAS it taught people to live together peacefully? (P.S. I think this next section got left out of an earlier reply. I believe this was on the subject of the depiction of God in Time Bandits.) Rick, you persistently fail to see the difference between a healthy parent/child relationship and an abusive one. In this way, you are like an abused child who still clings to the abusive parent despite years of pain and torture. If I remember the Time Bandits movie, the section you make mention of was a vision of maltheism, a vindictive (though perhaps a bit bumbling and incompetent God), who couldn't even remember why He had created evil. He LITERALLY used the phrase ``I think it had something to do with free will.'' Monty Python's vision of God as a sort of bumbling (though powerful) idiot or merely a tyrannical boob comes pretty close to maltheism. It is sort of sad that you saw a vision of the very God you believe in, yet you didn't recognize Him for what He is. Be well, -- Paul Zimmerman - AT&T Bell Laboratories pyuxn!pez