daveb@pogo.UUCP (Dave Butler) (08/15/86)
Just thought I'd give a status report on my church council ivestigation.
It looks like bad news for the catholic church; things have been turning up.
Enough in fact, that I am willing to share them with you. Also, I wish to
give credit where credit is due, I would never have succeeded on my own.
Special thanks to:
Mary Jo Williams(udenva!mwilliams),
Ken Arnold (cgl.ucsf.edu!arnold) and
Jim Valerio (omepd!jimv).
I couldn't have done it without them.
Mary Jo sent me an excerpt for an article from the Denver Post. Its
reprinted without permission. The quote is by Dottie Lamm (wife to the
governor) and was printed between January and March of this year. The
Article was titled: " Tracing Anger: Its Roots are in History. " and the
quote is as follows:
"Are Women Human?" (In the year 584, in Lyons, France, 43 Catholic
bishops and twenty men representing other bishops, after a lengthy
debate, took a vote. The results were: 32, yes; 31, no. Women
were declared human by one vote.) ---Council of Macon, France.
I have checked over a dozen major works on Catholic Councils (eg:
_Documents_of_the_Christian Church_ by Henry Bettenson,
_The_Ecumenical_Councils_ (1961) and
_The_Councils_of_the_Church:_History_and_Analysis_ H. J. Margull
are just a few of the titles.) and found no reference to this council
(almost as if the church doesn't want anybody to know about the council),
*BUT* in the _Catholic_Encyclopedia_ the council *IS* mentioned. There is
very little information there, but it does state that the council decided
about the *"disposition of women"* . It also determined church policy about
financial support to widows and orphans by the church. The council was a fully
sanctioned church council and 63 representatives was about average for a
church council of that time (If you want doccumentation for the last two
statements, write me; I'll give you Doccumentation!). The only other
references to the council that I can find, that are written in english, are
from 60 to 130 years old and noone seems to have them (Write and I'll send you
the list). There do seem to be some excellent refernences in french, but I
don't read french, so instead I've written a letter to Dottie Lamm for her
references.
Ken Arnold told me that he remembers reference to the council in the
book _The_Rape_of_The_*A*P*E*_ by Allen Sherman, and this could easily be
the book that I remember from college. Right now I have an order for it
at both the librairy and at a local bookstore. When I find the exact page
I'll post it to the net.
Jim Valerio checked out all the councils of Worms and gave me an
excellent reference book to check (even if it didn't mention the council).
I will continue to investigate the council for a little longer. I've
almost satisfied myself that such a council did occur, but I will go
on until I've both gotten back a responce from Dottie Lamm, and read through
_The_Rape_Of_The_*A*P*E*_. Then I will share my results with the net. If I
do find continued success, then I would feel that its the church, and not I,
who should apologize.
Wish me continued luck,
Dave Butler
"In our civilization, men are afraid they will not be men enough, and
women are afraid they might be considered only women."
Dr. Theodor Reik
Remember: Silly is a state of Mind, Stupid is a way of Life.