[net.philosophy] A new topic

awex@wxlvax.UUCP (Alan Wexelblat) (11/12/83)

For those who are tired of debating Objectivism, and all others, I want to 
get some response to the following.  

What I have is a personal dilemma.  I make no excuses for its irrationality,
logical flaws, or whatever.  You are all welcome to point them out to me 
where you see them.  I am interested in ALL reactions, both pro and con.
You can send me mail, or post to the net.

Thesis:  I am a computer science major, who will soon graduate, and enter the
world of full-time employment.  For a variety of reasons (which I will 
enumerate if need be), I cannot be self-employed.  Therefore, I must work 
for some company. 

Belief: I believe that in some way, through my learning and my abilities, I can
make this world better.  I have freely chosen this responsibility, and now plan
to act on it.  Secondarily to this, I believe that I can make a fair amount of
money, thorugh what I have learned, and my abilities.  This is desirable for a
number of reasons, some selfish, some altruistic.  I will enumerate these, if
necessary.

Belief:  I oppose the extention of war.  No, I am not a pacifist in the 
strictest sense.  If you are trying to kill me, and the only way I can stop you
is to kill you, then I will probably do so (extenuating circumstances 
excepted).  I am especially opposed to the massive overkill megadeath war 
machine that America has constructed.  In a world where a handful of submarines
could wipe out civilization as we know it, our present nuclear arsenal is 
unthinkable.  I support higher pay for soldiers, but I oppose construction of 
more aircraft carriers.  I think that every senator who voted for nerve-gas 
production should be thrown out of office next election.  I realize that this
is a very subjective pick-and-choose thesis, but that's the way I feel.

Fact:  the vast majority of technical companies (and universities) are in some
way connected with building this death machine.  
Fact:  I do not want to work for such a company or university, because I do not
want to participate in this collective insanity.
Fact:  For the reasons stated above, I want to get a job in the computer 
science area.

WHAT AM I TO DO?

--Alan Wexelblat (The vanishing Philosopher)

leff@smu.UUCP (11/15/83)

#R:wxlvax:-19400:smu:16200001:000:2002
smu!leff    Nov 14 09:09:00 1983

Your questions remind me of questions I had when I was a LIbertarian about
accepting government aid for college.  Government money was stolen money
and therefore I couldn't accept it.  (I resolved that dilemma at that time
by giving the money back to my father who was working and paid more in taxes
than I got from the government.)   

The problem with that argument is that all money is eventual government
taken.  You may get it directly from the government, from someone who
works for the government or from someone who works for a store who got
some money who works for the government etc.

In your case, eventually any money you receive will bepartially from people
who got paid for building weopons that you did not like.

There are some CS departments in University that receive no government
grants from the defense related departments.  However, some of your
students will go into defense related industries.  Some of them will
be getting VA benefits of some kind or other, etc. etc.

If you work for the phone company, government employees buy telephone services,
all government agencies have at least some of their communications over
regular telephone lines.

IBM does government work and most computer companies do sell at least a few
computers to the defense industries.  Atari was asked to develop some video
games for training soldiers!

IN short, you can't escape the government defense work.  

I personally think you might consider going into teaching where at least
you could say you helped give other people the opportunity to make the
same choice you are undergoing now.

It really is a matter of where do you draw the line as to how close
you wish to avoid being.  Probably, working for the defense department or
for a direct contractor is too close to the line.  Working as a technical
support person for a computer store would probably be very far on the
other side of the line.  In short, 'related to the defense industry' is
a fuzzy set when it comes to job opportunities.

ken@ihuxq.UUCP (11/15/83)

Alan has a problem: he wants to pursue a CS career yet not contribute
(actively, anyway) to the war machine.  The perception of contribution is
important, as all of us who pay taxes contribute quite directly to the war
toy chest.  So, where do you draw the line?  I work at Bell Labs.  I do not
work on military projects.  I have the same reservations Alan does about
so doing, yet I do not feel hypocritical just for working for an organization
that does do military work elsewhere.  My suggestion to Alan revolves
around a Mr. Spock line, "There are always options."  Viz: Start your own
business (that's a singular or plural "your"), OR make yourself feel less
squeemish about defense work you are not doing.  You might also investigate a
group called "Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility."  
No, you are not alone in your angst, but clearly, any problem with enough
boundary conditions will have no solution.  Or as the Beatles put it,
"A working class hero is something to be."
-- 

ken perlow
..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken
bell labs @ naperville, IL

lkk@mit-eddie.UUCP (Larry Kolodney) (11/30/83)

Nice to hear from you again alan...

Why don't you just work for one of the companies that DOESN'T do what
you are opposed to.  They do exist.  There is an organization here in
cambridge and elsewhere called High Technology Professionals for Peace
which has an employment agency dedicated to that purpose.
-- 
Larry Kolodney
(The Devil's Advocate)

(USE)    ..decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!lkk  
(ARPA)	lkk@mit-ml