[net.philosophy] Drifting Sideways

kissell@flairvax.UUCP (Kevin Kissell) (07/14/84)

(Responding to judy@ism780)

> I think the assumptions you make in the base note are 1) no new
> products and a static economy and 2) machines available to perform all
> menial tasks.  Since neither of these are true I don't think there is as
> much need for concern as you think.

I tried not to make any assumptions of stasis in the economy, and I was
not talking about a present-day crisis.  I was trying to point out that
the liberating goals and potential of automation are in conflict with the 
attitudes that govern our present society ("Ya don't work, ya don't eat.")
As a friend of mine pointed out, we will probably blow our civilization off 
the planet before it becomes a real problem.  If I may be permitted to be
optimistic, I still think we need to look hard at what we want to do to 
resolve the conflict.

> Robots are better suited than people to welding.  Let's face it, welding
> is unpleasant.  But they are not better suited for being masseuses,
> therapists, child care workers, etc..  The service
> industry will provide jobs to those workers displaced by technology.
> How much those services are worth will be measured by a free market.

Many people view the growth of the service sector to be unbounded and
a solution to industrial and agricultural sector unemployment.  This
does not hold up under closer scrutiny.  As one economist put it, you
cannot have a nation of people selling hamburgers to one another.  The
service system requires net input.  The input must come from some form 
of real production.

With regard to job sharing, as some have proposed it (and as is being
practiced in some industries in the Netherlands): when the cost of machine
labor becomes so low that the value of a day's labor cannot feed one person, 
how can it feed two?

Kevin D. Kissell
Fairchild Research Center
Advanced Processor Development
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"Any closing epigram, regardless of truth or wit, grows galling
 after a number of repetitions"

judy@ism780.UUCP (07/27/84)

#R:flairvax:-65300:ism780:20200014:000:1825
ism780!judy    Jul 18 16:34:00 1984

> Many people view the growth of the service sector to be unbounded and
> a solution to industrial and agricultural sector unemployment.  This
> does not hold up under closer scrutiny.  As one economist put it, you
> cannot have a nation of people selling hamburgers to one another.  The
> service system requires net input.  The input must come from some form
> of real production.

Isn't the stability of the economy based on a balance between inports and
exports more than in the actual GNP?  If we make 500,000 cars but don't
export any of them, is our economy better off than if we made only 100,000?
(Not if we imported the steel).  Really, there cannot be an infinite demand
for anything, including robots.  But, as long as some people are able to
make money making robots (and selling them overseas, of course) then there
will be a demand for service industries.  And the more people in those
industries the more creative they will be (more than just selling hamburgers
to one another).

Actually, the only truely productive people in society are the farmers.  They
provide the one thing none of us can get along without.  Then we can put
carpenters and tailors in because we need clothing and shelter.  You might
even include doctors.  But beyond that, the rest of our industry is based on
luxury items.  And I feel that is just as shaky as service industries.  After
all we can't have a nation of people selling each other refrigerators either.
(Or better yet, how about if we all became insurance salesmen).

Robotics will not remove diversification from our society.  It will relieve
humans from inhuman jobs.  It will cause some economic upheavals.  But it
does not put everyone on the street.  (In fact, it will probably displace
more third world slave laborers than anyone else if robots become cheap
enough).