jay@cadre.UUCP (02/18/85)
In a recent discussion on corporal punishment in schools that I watched on a local TV program, I was surprised to hear that more than 80% Americans are of the view that corporal punishment should be continued in American schools! There was a lone psychologist waging a futile war, showing how all that paddling can harm the child's personality, and instill unnecessary fear and hatred towards others. I understand that, in countries like Sweden, it is a crime even to ridicule a student in front of his/her peers, let alone hit him/her. I frankly am surprised that, in a country like America, so many people subscribe to such ancient forms of "disciplining" their pupils. I am curious to know why such a state of affairs exists. I would like to hear from net folk: parents/would-be parents/concerned people. I am interested in hearing not just your views on this subject (which would be very valuable), but also any clues you can offer for such a mental make-up of the American populace. Jay Ramanathan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ jay@cadre.ARPA Decision Systems Lab, Univ of Pittsburgh, PA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "They clamour for all those babies, and then beat them up"
barry@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mikki Barry) (02/19/85)
I have no children (but am planning on one), but I can't see how a parent can allow someone that is not known to them (i.e. teacher), smacking on kids. Yes, I realize that some kids are unruly (I teach a class full of disrespectful, hyperactive, and generally difficult kids), but many people don't know their own strength. I wouldn't want to take the chance that my child was being hit by one of them. I know that this is not the case with every parent, but I have seen many try to shift the responsibility for discipline of their child to teachers. Even though my class (karate) is supposed to teach discipline, I often find parents asking me to take care of their child's reading problem, sibling problems, classmate problems, etc. I even had one ask me to smack their kid for them because of the child being unruly in the car on the way to class. I declined on the grounds that I wanted them to respect me, not fear me. It's a full contact class, and the kids have to trust instructors not to kill them. But, I deviate... Violence against children is rarely an answer. If a child, perhaps needs a smack on the behind, it should be the parent's responsibility to decide whether said smack is truly necessary, and to deliver it themselves. Children should not fear their teachers, but respect them. A teacher should be able to command respect from non physical actions. In my day, my teachers punished us by having us put our heads down on the desk, or isolation for a few minutes, etc. In severe cases, parents should be notified, and it should be the parents who decide the discipline. I know that there are some pretty rotten kids out there as well as some pretty uncaring parents, but smacking kids around isn't the answer.
jayt@ssc-vax.UUCP (Jay T McCanta) (02/21/85)
At one point in time (I don't recalL when) I read (I don't recall where)
that children prefer a spanking to other forms of punishment. Why? Because
it was over with quickly. Now that I think about it, there was more than one
time that I wished I had just been whacked and got it all over with instead of
being grounded, lectured, stood in a corner, etc.
I don't believe in slapping a child. Spanking, as others have said, doesn't
seem as personel an asault. Toddlers, whose judgement and memory are quite
selective, need some reenforcement (either positive or negative) that will
prevent them from life threatening situations. I have not met a two year old
who fully understands what it means to be hit by a car, but most understand
a spanking. I'm not saying that it is the best method, but it is effective.
All children need to know that some one is in control. They tend to look
to adults for this. As they get older, they want to know thier limits.
Many troublesome kids are just testing thier limits. They want to know just
how far they can go. The idea of "tough-love" for teen-agers is that these
people never knew their bounds. It is trying to make up for this loss.
When a child's bounds are crossed, the child needs to know. I beilve a firm
(not hard) swat and an explaination of the violation convey the needed message.
This done in a loving environment (and not infront of peers) should not prove
devastating to a child. It teaches them responsibility for their actions.
Now, whether teachers should be able to spank their students, I wish that
every teacher was wise enough to know how and when to spank, but because
I know that isn't the case, I find myself torn. There is the child's right
to saftey (above all else) and there are the rights of the other children
to have a quit classroom, calm teacher, etc. The question is too important
to leave to the government, but I don't have a solution either.
-------------------------------------
Never strike a child in anger,
Never hit him when irate,
But save it for some happy time,
When both are feeling great.
- Erma Bombeck
-------------------------------------bmt@we53.UUCP ( B. M. Thomas ) (03/02/85)
> I am curious to know why such a state of affairs exists. I would like to >hear from net folk: parents/would-be parents/concerned people. I am >interested in hearing not just your views on this subject (which would be >very valuable), but also any clues you can offer for such a mental make-up >of the American populace. I am curious to know why educated people are so ignorant of the facts of life. There is a quote from Solomon that says to discipline your child strongly and physically, saying, "if you beat him with the rod, he will not die." I appreciate this, and if you can see it, there are two meanings here: first, a good-natured assurance that you won't kill him; second, the assurance that by training your child well to discipline himself, you will save him from death, both spiritually and even physically. Wake up. There's still time for you. from over the rainbow of we53!bmt(Brian M. Thomas @ AT&T Technologies, St. Louis, MO)
bmt@we53.UUCP ( B. M. Thomas ) (03/02/85)
I think I should back up a little. My previous reply was a little strong against the idea of spanking. This was misplaced in a discussion of corporal punishment in schools, and I apologise. I fully agree, Mikki, that teachers are not capable, and should not be expected, to take the parents' responsi- bilities to raise their children. It is this parental abdication of authority and responsibility that has put teachers in an impossible situation. from over the rainbow of we53!bmt(Brian M. Thomas @ AT&T Technologies, St. Louis, MO)
david@terak.UUCP (David Jayakaran) (03/07/85)
[] >> I am curious to know why such a state of affairs exists. I would like to >>hear from net folk: parents/would-be parents/concerned people. I am >>interested in hearing not just your views on this subject (which would be >>very valuable), but also any clues you can offer for such a mental make-up >>of the American populace. >>Jay Ramanathan >I am curious to know why educated people are so ignorant of the facts of >life. >There is a quote from Solomon that says to discipline your child strongly >and physically, saying, "if you beat him with the rod, he will not die." >I appreciate this, and if you can see it, there are two meanings here: >first, a good-natured assurance that you won't kill him; second, the >assurance that by training your child well to discipline himself, you will >save him from death, both spiritually and even physically. >Wake up. There's still time for you. >we53!bmt(Brian M. Thomas @ AT&T Technologies, St. Louis, MO) Bravo, Brian!!! I couldn't have said it better myself! -- David uucp: ...{decvax,hao,ihnp4,seismo}!noao!terak!david phone: [602] 998-4800 us mail: Terak Corporation, 14151 N 76th street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handywork. Psalm 19:1