[net.philosophy] Historical Relativity

williams@kirk.DEC (John Williams 223-3402) (09/10/84)

> 	OK.  'Lifting a rock' is a (consistent) task description.
> Hence, from 'God is omnipotent' it follows that God can lift a
> rock.  You pick the rock.  In fact, 'lifting every rock' is a
> consistent task description. Thus, from 'God is omnipotent' it
> follows that God can lift every rock. It therefore follows that
> 'a rock to heavy for God to lift' is NOT logically consistent but
> self-contradictory.  Hence, in turn, 'creating a rock too heavy
> for God to lift' is NOT a consistent task-description.  So the
> phrase fails to impose a limitation on God's omnipotence by
> specifying a *task* which an omnipotent being could not perform. 

> Yours for clearer concepts,       --Jay Rosenberg

	Omni( fill-in-the-blank ) specifies something that is 
external to that system. A paradox posed as a violation of 
reality implies that the laws governing that system cannot be 
changed. An omnipotent being could change the laws governing that 
rock prior to the attempt at lifting it. This would give 
omnipotence two distinct meanings. For a closed system, it would 
signify an independence from influence from that system, with 
that system coming under complete control, including the laws 
which establish that system. For an open system, it is a measure 
of how much you are able to control the environment, although 
there is no way of changing the laws of physics and evolution.

	It is true that the paradox occurs when one considers a 
*GOD* to reside within the universe of which he has gained 
omnipotence. If this *GOD* resides outside this universe, then he 
would be able to exert control, as opposed to influence. He would 
be able to make changes, as opposed to modulations, to the 
environment.

	This can be thought of as a way of clarifying the fact 
that we exist within the universe and hence are unable to change 
the laws of physics, we are only able to modulate the 
environment. This paradox is comparable to the problem of 
splitting a black hole. There is evidence that this has occurred,
namely, the *BIG BANG*, which is strong indication that something 
exists outside this known universe. It implies that the laws of 
physics are enforced by something external to this universe.

		----{ john williams }----

(DEC E-NET)	KIRK::WILLIAMS
(UUCP)		{decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-kirk!williams
(ARPA)		williams%kirk.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
		williams%kirk.DEC@Purdue-Merlin.ARPA

williams@kirk.DEC (John Williams 223-3402) (05/01/85)

>   3- the universe has finite age, but no first moment. 

>   It may be distasteful to some, but need not contradict the assumption
>   that each moment has a predecessor. It's extremely difficult for 
>   the vast majority of humans (me included) to hypothesize the
>   difficulties of such problems. Anyone who's ever checked out
>   texts on general relativity is aware of how bizarre and unintuitive
>   regions near black (or white, I suppose, in this case) holes can be.

>   Following a timelike path backwards towards the initial discontinuity
>   would be analogous to asymptotically approaching an unreachable point,
>   assuming you could go backwards thru time in the first place.

>   Can anyone out there who understands general relativity comment?

>   Is there such a thing as a person who understands general relativity?

>   -michael

	Yes. This is possible. It requires that the universe be 
continuous with laws that apply irrespective of scale. Einstein 
was not too far off the track, according to many current 
theories, is stating that the universe was finite and unbounded, 
and spherical in shape. The current theories indicate that the
universe is curved, ( the known universe, that is ) but is not 
curved enough to completely curve in on itself. The comparison 
between the known universe and black holes are compelling. It
is possible that black holes are actually smaller universes that 
are exploding, but virtually unobservable because of the time 
dilation effect. This introduces the idea of a force opposing 
gravity that, because of time dilation, causes the universe to be 
an unstable oscillator in certain regions, regardless of scale.

	In other words, the curvature of space in the known 
universe is simply a localized region in the grander scheme of 
things.

						John.