mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (02/06/85)
> I am not alone in noting the similarities between Prince and Little Richard > and Jimi Hendrix. > > Rob Spray Any similarities are purely intentional, but not quite real. In the movie Purple Rain, Prince is NEVER actually shown PLAYING the guitar!!!!!! There are shots of his mug, looking suitably tortured, while some nice guitar playing is going on in the background, but he is never shown ACTUALLY playing the thing. Given the hype (not from Spray's article, but from other media) that would making Prince into the new god of electric guitar, I feel I must point out this small fact. Anyone who would compare Prince's alleged guitar playing with Hendrix's shoul check out Eddie Hazel, James 'Blood' Ulmer, Pete Cosey, Vernon Reid and others to find out where the cutting edge of electric guitar playing is at Marcel Simon
jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (02/07/85)
> > I am not alone in noting the similarities between Prince and Little Richard > > and Jimi Hendrix. > > > > Rob Spray > Given the hype (not from > Spray's article, but from other media) that would making Prince > into the new god of electric guitar.... > > Anyone who would compare Prince's alleged guitar playing with > Hendrix's shoul check out Eddie Hazel, James 'Blood' Ulmer, > Pete Cosey, Vernon Reid and others to find out where the cutting > edge of electric guitar playing is at > > Marcel Simon While it's true that there are similarities between Prince and Jimi Hendrix, and it's certainly true that Hendrix was the undisputed god of electric guitar, that doesn't necessarily mean that Prince is the new god of electric guitar. I think that the similarities that people have been noting lie more in the area of general stage presence and personal style than in musical style and ability. -- Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073 {linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsrgv!dciem!jeff {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeff
jeff@dciem.UUCP (Jeff Richardson) (02/07/85)
> > I am not alone in noting the similarities between Prince and Little Richard > > and Jimi Hendrix. > > > > Rob Spray > Given the hype (not from > Spray's article, but from other media) that would making Prince > into the new god of electric guitar.... > > Anyone who would compare Prince's alleged guitar playing with > Hendrix's shoul check out Eddie Hazel, James 'Blood' Ulmer, > Pete Cosey, Vernon Reid and others to find out where the cutting > edge of electric guitar playing is at > > Marcel Simon While it's true that there are some similarities between Prince and Jimi Hendrix, and it's certainly true that Hendrix was the undisputed god of electric guitar, that doesn't necessarily mean that Prince is the new god of electric guitar. I think the similarities that people have been noting lie more in the area of general stage presence and personal style than in musical style or ability. That doesn't mean that Prince isn't talented, but I don't think anybody claimed that he can play like Hendrix did. -- Jeff Richardson, DCIEM, Toronto (416) 635-2073 {linus,ihnp4,uw-beaver,floyd}!utcsrgv!dciem!jeff {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!dciem!jeff
nm34@sdcc12.UUCP (nm34) (02/08/85)
> > Any similarities [between Prince and Jimi Hendrix] are purely intentional, > but not quite real. > In the movie Purple Rain, Prince is NEVER actually shown PLAYING > his guitar. >. . . > Anyone who would compare Prince's alleged guitar playing with > Hendrix's shoul check out Eddie Hazel, James 'Blood' Ulmer, > Pete Cosey, Vernon Reid and others to find out where the cutting > edge of electric guitar playing is at > > Marcel Simon I must differ with you. To begin with let me state that I am not a fan of Prince. I am completely repulsed by his macho attitude which probably is born from an inferiority complex. However, I saw him on the American Music Awards last week and was impressed. Most of the "artists" on the show were not performing live. Prince did his song live and was very good. He was spontaneous and exciting. It was a real treat after seeing star after star fail to properly lip sink their song. I guess after a day of watching M-TV people expect musicians to move their lips a few beats out of step. Anyway I liked Price. I thought of Hendrix, but I suppose I was supposed to. Andy Bindman
rob@ctvax.UUCP (02/10/85)
While I agree that Prince will never be the guitarist that Hendrix was (who will?), my point was in terms of a musical presence. There are better pianists that Little Richard, but who (except maybe Jerry Lee Lewis and Larry Williams) could match his manic intensity. Prince has played ALL the instruments on some of his albums so I don't think his musical ability is in doubt, but I expect some rearrangements are made for stage performances. Has anyone seen Prince live who could comment on guitar-playing abilities? Heck, I've got a Hendrix bootleg with Johnny Winter on guitar, but this doesn't detract from Hendrix' abilities. My point was that in terms of an understanding of music and a stage presence, there are some similarities between Little Richard, Jimi Hendrix, and Prince. "She said you're strange, don't change, and I let her" Rob Spray ...convex!ctvax!rob
jrathman@uokvax.UUCP (02/11/85)
I see your point, Marcel - just because you didn't see Prince
playing his guitar (although I could have sworn I saw fingers
on the frets and others plucking strings), the only logical
conclusion any rational person could jump to is that Prince is
a fraud and doesn't play guitar. Of course, disregard all
credits on the albums, especially the "Controversy" album, on
which he "allegedly" plays ALL the instruments. Oh, and while
we're at it, I noticed on Springsteen's "Born In The U.S.A."
video that Bruce's singing isn't quite in synch with the
soundtrack; therefore, it's obvious that he really doesn't do
the singing on his albums. Sometimes he even stops playing
his guitar and the sound doesn't diminish a bit, so I bet he
can't even play guitar!! And who of us really, really believe
that Hendrix could play guitar with his tongue and teeth????
I hope we can look forward to more of these brilliant(?),
insightful(?), and intelligent(???) observations, Mr. Simon.
Jim Rathman
....ctvax!uokvax!jrathmanRon Natalie <ron@BRL-TGR.ARPA> (02/11/85)
> While it's true that there are similarities between Prince and Jimi Hendrix, > and it's certainly true that Hendrix was the undisputed god of electric guitar, > that doesn't necessarily mean that Prince is the new god of electric guitar. > I think that the similarities that people have been noting lie more in > the area of general stage presence and personal style than in musical style > and ability. Ditto, having never seen Hendix on stage, but having listened to him, I find nothing in Prince's music that even remotely qualifies him as an inovator of electric guitar technique.
Lear@SEISMO.ARPA (02/12/85)
Subject: Re: Prince != Jimi Hendrix To: brl-vgr!info-music@TOPAZ.ARPA.#Internet In-Reply-To: Message from "Ron Natalie <ron@BRL-TGR.ARPA>" of 11 Feb 85 12:51:03 EST Prince is a very good performer. I won't argue about his musical talents although I understand he is a walking orchestra. The reason he is so popular is the fact that he is a very good performer. Eliot Lear [Lear@RU-BLUE.ARPA] -------
gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (02/13/85)
I think that the similarities between Prince and Jimi Hendrix are not in their
guitar playing, but in their message and their social commentary. A DJ once
made a better comparison of the two than this, citing specifics about what
Hendrix' message was (I don't remember) but Prince's commentary on religion
(particularly Armageddon/the Apocalypse), sex roles, and other things can be
compared to what Hendrix had to say in his music.
--
If you wanna ride, don't ride the white horse.
Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbomfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (02/13/85)
> > My point was that in terms of an understanding of music and a > stage presence, there are some similarities between Little > Richard, Jimi Hendrix, and Prince. > > Rob Spray I beg to disagree. Prince strives, indeed strains, to achieve the charismatic stage presence that Hendrix achieved with no apparent effort. As for music, is it not a bit silly for Prince to put so much effort to sound like music that was made 15+ years ago... and fail? Marcel Simon ihnp4!mhuxr!mfs
mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (02/13/85)
> I think that the similarities between Prince and Jimi Hendrix are not in their > guitar playing, but in their message and their social commentary. > > Greg Skinner (gregbo) But Hendrix' importance lies with his music rather than with image and/or social "message". Said message was little more than a rehash of sixties hippie ideals, which sound peculiarly dated today. Image, clothing, sexual prowess and other facets of the Hendrix legend fade in importance with time. The musical universes he chartered are still fresh, something exemplified by the fact that it has taken 15+ years for the next steps to be taken by a new generation of guitarists (the ones I mentioned in my original posting). Does anyone really think that Prince will have that kind of MUSICAL influence? Images come and go, but music is eternal Marcel Simon ihnp4!mhuxr!mfs
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (02/14/85)
> > Any similarities are purely intentional, but not quite real. > In the movie Purple Rain, Prince is NEVER actually shown PLAYING > the guitar!!!!!! There are shots of his mug, looking suitably tortured, > while some nice guitar playing is going on in the background, > but he is never shown ACTUALLY playing the thing. Given the hype (not from > Spray's article, but from other media) that would making Prince > into the new god of electric guitar, I feel I must point out > this small fact. > > Marcel Simon I don't know what movie you saw, but I only remember one number by the Revolution when Prince WASN't playing the guitar! ("Darling Nicki") The shots of playing may have been short, but they were always there. BTW, I'm old enough to remember when Hendix came on the music scene. The HYPE over HIM was because he was doing something that had never been done before, NOT because he was good. We know better now, in retrospect. Maybe you will feel the same way about Prince, N years removed. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
rpk@mit-eddie.UUCP (Robert Krajewski) (02/15/85)
Does anyone really think that Prince will have that kind of MUSICAL influence? (Marcel Simon) Hmm, this is a toughie. Even though an educated pop listener can hear the references in Prince's music, (Sly, James Brown, etc.), I think he has a musical style that is all his own. In particular, the drum tracks for 1999 are especially inventive -- they are certainly funky and work well in a funk context, but they are extremely inventive and not the least bit cliched. I have been listening fairly closely to Prince since ``Dirty Mind'' and it's quite clear that he has been a big influence on a lot of the r&b scene, and even some of the rock scene. Haven't you noticed the increasing amounts of rockish guitar solos in r&b ? Many of the synth lines and sounds that Prince has been using for years are now heard on other artists records. Whether he will have an enduring influence is hard to say, but remember that there is one very important difference between Prince and Hendrix that may give him the advantage over Jimi -- lifestyle. It took Hendrix time to develop a truly original sound, and then just as he was about start getting more sophisticated about it, he died of the good life. Judging from reports about Prince, he's not going to run down the same road. -- ``Bob'' (Robert P. Krajewski) ARPA: RpK@MC MIT Local: RpK@OZ UUCP: genradbo!miteddie!rpk
rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Professor Wagstaff) (02/18/85)
> But Hendrix' importance lies with his music rather than with image and/or > social "message". A question I must ask here: Huh? If Jimi Hendrix's image wasn't of at least equal importance to his music, then I'm the late Paul McCartney. His clothing, his swagger, his stunts (playing a guitar with one's teeth just for the sake of playing a guitar with one's teeth and setting fire to one's guitar for the sake of setting fire to one's guitar do NOT, at least to me, qualify as importance stemming from the music), all were at least as important to the phenomenon that was Jimi Hendrix as the guitar sound innovations that the man produced. Prince has a similar dichotomous nature: both his somewhat eccentric image and style play an important role in his mystique as much as his music does. Compare this with some bands/artists where image and style are all they have. (I won't mention names for fear of incurring certain people's wraths.) Or even with bands that are "purely" musicians without caring much for image and style. Perhaps the most successful AND most influential are the ones who combine BOTH. Not to say that they necessarily make the "best" music. (Often the pure musicians are a major influence on those who break through with both musicianship/craft and image.) -- Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen. Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr
mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (02/18/85)
> > But Hendrix' importance lies with his music rather than with image and/or > > social "message". > > A question I must ask here: Huh? If Jimi Hendrix's image wasn't of at least > equal importance to his music, then I'm the late Paul McCartney. His clothing, > his swagger, his stunts (playing a guitar with one's teeth just for the sake > of playing a guitar with one's teeth and setting fire to one's guitar for > the sake of setting fire to one's guitar do NOT, at least to me, qualify as > importance stemming from the music), all were at least as important to the > phenomenon that was Jimi Hendrix as the guitar sound innovations that the man > produced. > Just who, outside of sixties heads approaching senility (like me?), remembers or even cares about that stuff? Setting fire to one's guitar kinda pales next to Sid Vicious stubbing out cigarettes on his arm, or next to Ozzy Osbourne biting the head off live birds, does it not? Does that make Vicious or Osbourne the equal or superior to Hendrix? Go to a local library. Look up Life, Time and Look magazines for the years 1945-1950. Check out all articles on BeBop. I will bet you anything you want that 90% of the copy in these articles is devoted to Gillespie's horn rimmed glasses, Monk's hats and general weirdness, the superhuman speed the early bop tunes were played at, etc. Very little will be said about the harmonic and rhythmic changes the beboppers made to the music, which is all that we consider now. Why? Because that is what mattered!!!!! The rest is just sociological diversion. Miles Davis is flamboyant; Bill Evans was not. They are, however, equally important. Jimi Hendrix was flamboyant; Eric Clapton less so. They are both important, Clapton for his contribution to the blues (a significant one, that dates from his post Cream, post Layla period), Hendrix for his vivid demonstration of the uncharted possibilities in the domain of the electric guitar. I don't give a rat's ass about his playing with his teeth or balling X women. In fact, I think it is a detriment BECAUSE that is all people tend to see. If I had a guitar playing child, I would want him to emulate Hendrix the guitarist, certainly not Hendrix the man. I certainly would not want that child dead at 27. What's this about "the late Paul McCartney"? Did he die and no one told me? Marcel Simon
schneider@vlnvax.DEC (02/18/85)
Now let's not all jump down Marcel Simon's throat over this comparison.
Within a limited scope he makes a point, but I question whether it has
any significance. In fact I shudder to see Hendrix's name in the same
sentence with Pr{mmmph}, the recent media product. Yes, the current sex-
god has an appeal which translates into $$$s to the lowest common
denominator, but in almost any other context it is shere blasphemy to
compare them. The rest of the world still hasn't caught up to Jimi, fifteen
years after his death.
By the way the album (bootleg & import) which features Hendrix and Johnny
Winter usually goa
-goes by the name of "Woke Up One Morning and Found Myself Dead". It also
has Buddy Miles on drums and a very drunk Jim Morrison singing a few
perverse vocals. Any Hendrix fan has to hear this "Red House".
Daniel Schneider
{...decvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vlnvax!schneiderellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis) (02/19/85)
The late Paul McCartney (Professor Wagstaff) writes: > If Jimi Hendrix's image wasn't of at least equal importance to his music, > then I'm the late Paul McCartney. His clothing, his swagger, his stunts > (...), all were at least as important to the phenomenon that was Jimi > Hendrix as the guitar sound innovations that the man produced. Simply put, Hendrix invented modern electric guitar technique. Punk, metal, blues, AOR, jazz, fringe, etc. are all deeply in his debt. Listen to some Black Flag, Shockabilly, Metallica, or even Fred Frith, next to Hendrix's `Machine Gun' if there's any doubt in your mind that his influence is as strong now as it was 15 years ago. -michael
yrdbrd@bmcg.UUCP (Larry J. Huntley) (02/21/85)
In article <> ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis) writes: > >Simply put, Hendrix invented modern electric guitar technique. > >Punk, metal, blues, AOR, jazz, fringe, etc. are all deeply in his debt. >Listen to some Black Flag, Shockabilly, Metallica, or even Fred Frith, next >to Hendrix's `Machine Gun' if there's any doubt in your mind that his >influence is as strong now as it was 15 years ago. > >-michael While I can agree in principle with your sentiments, I think that the word "invented" is a bit strong. As another of the sixties heads rapidly approaching senility, let me suggest that you listen to Charlie Christian or Django Reinhardt recordings from the 30's. These two invented electric guitar technique; Hendrix, Clapton, Beck et al, expanded the approach and utilized the technology available at the time (mostly high-power amplifiers that Django would have found obscene.) I am amazed at some of the young guitarists on the scene today; their technique is great, their sound is stunning, and the good players are so damned numerous! They all are standing on the shoulders of giants, though; I haven't yet heard anyone change the game as much as Hendrix did. Remember -- there ain't no new licks, but there's always some new kid ready to play the old ones better. 'brd -- Larry J. Huntley Burroughs -(B)- Corporation Advanced Systems Group MS-703 "I've got a bad 10850 Via Frontera San Diego, CA 92128 feeling about this..." (619) 485-4544 ---- "Do you promise to covet propriety, sobriety, purity, security, and not hurt the State...say 'What?'" "What?" "Take the stand."
elf@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Fiume) (02/21/85)
[] As with most figures who appear larger than life, JH was overrated, and by the looks of things, still is: > > Simply put, Hendrix invented modern electric guitar technique. > Is there anything but "modern" electric guitar technique? The word "technique" wrt musical instrument playing implies discipline, mastery of fundamentals, etc. Few [electric] guitarists can claim to possess such skills. Three "modern" exceptions: Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, Mark Knopfler. Admittedly, Hendrix did shake things up a bit. But the time was ripe for a whole lotta shakin'. He has been canonised on false pretences. Period. Eugene Fiume U of Toronto
michaelf@ISM780.UUCP (02/26/85)
Overrated? Canonized? Whenever someone can make "timeless"
music, much like the music James Marshall made, I think they
should be rated great. Much of his studio stuff ranks up there
with anything produced. Electric Ladyland has so many nice touches
in terms of production, I don't think it's fair to criticize the ink the
man got. Axis Bold as Love, the same. I'm not so hot on "Purple Haze"
and "Foxy Lady" as most Hendrix fans but some of his less popular
tunes, i.e., 1983 and Little Wing, show a genius which should be noted,
talked about, ranted about and, as you call it, canonized. EXCLAMATION
POINT.6615lp13@sjuvax.UUCP (palena) (03/11/85)
In article <793@utcsri.UUCP> elf@utcsri.UUCP (Eugene Fiume) writes: > > [] > >As with most figures who appear larger than life, JH was overrated, and >by the looks of things, still is: >> >> Simply put, Hendrix invented modern electric guitar technique. >> >Is there anything but "modern" electric guitar technique? The word >"technique" wrt musical instrument playing implies discipline, mastery >of fundamentals, etc. Few [electric] guitarists can claim to possess >such skills. Three "modern" exceptions: Ry Cooder, Richard Thompson, >Mark Knopfler. > >Admittedly, Hendrix did shake things up a bit. But the >time was ripe for a whole lotta shakin'. He has been canonised on >false pretences. Period. > >Eugene Fiume >U of Toronto In many ways Hendrix was building on foundations laid by Eric Clapton.But his use of effects was truly revolutionary.He was also probably the hottest (best?) blues guitarist to walk the face of the earth.The Mahavishnu,who is probably the world's greatest "contemporary" guitarist,was heavily influenced by JH,anybody who has heard "Birds of Fire" twice knows that.Larry Coryell,who can boast little more than "discipline,mastery of fundamentals,etc." in his guitar playing also was heavily influenced by Jimi. The three "modern" exceptions you list are being canonized on false pretense.