jack@rlgvax.UUCP (Jack Waugh) (07/01/84)
Pirsig is the author of *Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance*. What do modern philosophers think of this book? Is it mentioned in philosophy courses in college? Prominently?
gmf@uvacs.UUCP (07/22/84)
>> Pirsig is the author of *Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance*. >> What do modern philosophers think of this book? Is it mentioned in >> philosophy courses in college? Prominently? For a couple of years after it first came out (8 or 10 years ago?), it was frequently mentioned in certain kinds of English courses, sometimes even prominently. I doubt that it was often mentioned favorably in philosophy courses. It doesn't contain much philosophizing as this term is usually understood in university philosophy departments. For myself, I seem to recall that I could never make out what he meant by the nebulous-seeming "Quality" he recommended. Evidently, though, the concreteness and technology of the motorcycle he so loved (or the equivalent) appealed to some English professors. Or maybe it was his plea for improving the way we live, albeit he doesn't specify a practical plan (other than cultivating your motorcycle). In any case, I gather many people have found the book inspiring. Gordon Fisher
hawk@oliven.UUCP (Rick Hawkins) (07/27/84)
Yes, it's used in colleges today. I had to read it for a course in Ancient and Medieval thought--and I even did. As philosophy, it ain't that great. As a story, it's somewhat interesting. Pirsig seems to be somewhere between delusions of grandeur and paranoia. -- hawk (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) [hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix]!oliveb!oliven!hawk
ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (07/28/84)
-- >> Yes, it's used in colleges today. I had to read it for a course >> in Ancient and Medieval thought--and I even did. As philosophy, >> it ain't that great. As a story, it's somewhat interesting. >> Pirsig seems to be somewhere between delusions of grandeur and >> paranoia. I read it back when it came out, and found, curiously, that most of the people who liked it--as philosophy--were men, most who disliked it--as literature--were women. I did enjoy reading the escapades of a fellow "Walden" fan, but found it uneven philosophy and plain bad literature. But then, I've heard that Pirsig wrote it at the suggestion of his psychiatrist, that the big bad University in question is Chicago, the naughty professor, of course, Mortimer Adler. Any U of C students or alumni know the straight poop? I do know what he did with the proceeds. He bought a WestSail 32 sloop, which he named "Arete". He was anchored out next to our boat off Dinner Key (Miami) in July 1977, preparing to make a crossing. Nice boat. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 27 Jul 84 [9 Thermidor An CXCII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7261 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***
yba@mit-athena.ARPA (Mark H Levine) (07/30/84)
It was mentioned prominently in my Tech Writing course at Harvard. Does that count? Is Tech Writing just another manifestation of the nature of the philosophy course? A beer can? The philosophy courses I have seen so far do not know of Zen much less understand any content therein. -- yba%mit-heracles@mit-mc.ARPA UUCP: decvax!mit-athena!yba
seung@ut-ngp.UUCP (Hyunjune Sebastian) (08/08/84)
Robert Pirsig hasn't gotten very good reviews on the net. I'd like to
present a dissenting opinion, just so others aren't discouraged from
reading him. His book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is the
best philosophical novel that I've ever read. While existentialists like
Sartre and Camus were probably better writers of fiction than Pirsig, I
always found them a bit shallow philosophically. They were very good at
making others feel their existential nausea, etc., but behind the purple
prose they really didn't have many ideas. Pirsig's book, unlike the
existentialist works, is "philosophical" first, and a "novel" second. Its
central question is: what is value? Pirsig manages to give a very
penetrating discussion of this age-old question. The book holds its own as
literature also--I couldn't put it down. I was fascinated by Pirsig's
unrelenting pursuit of truth, a struggle so intense that it drives him
insane! In sum, the book is not mumbo-jumbo or purple prose, but a book
with a substantial question and a substantial answer. It can entertain
yet also make you think. That's what a philosophical novel is for.
By the way, Ken, you mentioned that the bad professor was supposed to be
Mortimer Adler. The way I heard it, Pirsig was really blasting Richard
McKeon, the chairman of the UChicago philosophy department. I saw in an
old Harvard Crimson interview that Pirsig was planning to elaborate on his
metaphysics. Did anything ever come of this? Also, is there any truth to
the rumor that Pirsig later went insane again? Come on, netlanders--
someone must know the answers to these questions. Also, why the difference
in male and female responses, Ken?
Sebastian
{ut-sally,ctvax,ihnp4}!ut-ngp!seungken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (08/13/84)
-- >> Robert Pirsig hasn't gotten very good reviews on the net. I'd like to >> present a dissenting opinion, just so others aren't discouraged from >> reading him. His book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is the >> best philosophical novel that I've ever read... >> ...The book holds its own as >> literature also--I couldn't put it down. I was fascinated by Pirsig's >> unrelenting pursuit of truth, a struggle so intense that it drives him >> insane! In sum, the book is not mumbo-jumbo or purple prose, but a book >> with a substantial question and a substantial answer. It can entertain >> yet also make you think. That's what a philosophical novel is for. >> Sebastian [Sebastian noted also my observation that far more men like "Zen...", and as philosophy, than women, who regard it as mediocre literature.] My hypothesis about this effect has to do with sex differences in thinking. In my experience, men get locked into logical rules and precedents, stick scrupulously to deductive inferrence, and often generalize broadly, if not wildly. Women look much more at the unique details of a situation and make more case-by-case judgements, often questioning assumptions and givens. There is no value judgement intended or implied in this observation, and there was no scientific sample. I think the debate in net.abortion follows this trend, though. I can always guess the sex of the author after 1 paragraph. So now we go to the heart of the matter, "Zen..." Pirsig latches onto an idea and follows it to absurdity. So what is quality, anyway? We know it implicitly, yet we don't. I guess what the man was trying to say was that it's all in patterns. We learn patterns and rules for patterns. And thus we filter our senses. Well, he could have said "you are what you eat" and been done with it. The book is readable, sure. For me, I saw another guy who carries around "Walden", and who thinks like a good machinist. And there's some basic lessons from Philosophy 101, and even some social contract theory. I have recommended "Zen..." to people who were not familiar with the uses of linear thinking. But, geez, for all Pirsig dwelled on quality, he exercised very little quality control. So there he is on the high plains, watching the horizon, thinking "low wall of clouds, no mediating cirrus, a cold front" (or however he phrased that bit), and I'm quite spellbound--I can't put the book down either--because when I'm riding, that's the way the perceptions go through my own head. But it's not literature. Poe's "Descent into the Maelstrom" is literature. OK, this is the 20th Century. Byrd's "Alone" (a diary of his winter in isolation at the South Pole) is literature. "Zen..." isn't a book, it's a shop manual. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 12 Aug 84 [25 Thermidor An CXCII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7261 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***
phaedrus@eneevax.UUCP (Pravin) (06/08/85)
Obviously, I am a great fan of this man and his book. I have searched
high and low for a followup book or anything about this man. I heard
that he was at the University of Arizona (this was purely rumour).
Does anybody have any info at all about him? I would really appreciate
any leads that you could give me. I am particularly interested in any
other books, papers, articles that this man has written/published.
I hope this isn't an old topic.
Thanks,
--
Pravin Kumar
Don't bother me! I'm on an emergency third rail power trip.
ARPA: phaedrus!eneevax@maryland
UUCP: {seismo,allegra,brl-bmd}!umcp-cs!eneevax!phaedrusjimi@SCIRTP.UUCP (Jim Ingram) (08/19/85)
> > Obviously, I am a great fan of this man and his book. I have searched > high and low for a followup book or anything about this man. I heard > that he was at the University of Arizona (this was purely rumour). > > Does anybody have any info at all about him? I would really appreciate > any leads that you could give me. I am particularly interested in any > other books, papers, articles that this man has written/published. Oui Magazine published an interview with Persig (correct spelling) in their Nov. 75 issue. (I found a copy at a local used book store last year.) I don't recall much of what Persig said, but my general impression was that he was living off his royalties and continuing to ponder the questions discussed in _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance_. He said he didn't plan to write another book, and that he was very reclusive. -- The views expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of any other individuals or organizations. Jim Ingram {decvax, akgua, ihnp4}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!jimi SCI Systems, Inc. P.O. Box 12557, RTP, NC 27709 919 549 8334
mlj@mtfmc.UUCP (M.JULIAR) (08/21/85)
The New York Times Book Review published an article by Persig within the last year. It was in part, at least, about the death of his son. I don't know exactly when it appeared, but it should be very easy to track down at your local library.
jim@ISM780B.UUCP (08/24/85)
>Oui Magazine published an interview with Persig (correct spelling) in their >Nov. 75 issue. (I found a copy at a local used book store last year.) You won't make friends and influence people by "correcting" others with demonstrably false information. The copy of Z&tAoMM I have in my hand is quite definite on the spelling of the name as "Robert M. Pirsig". -- Jim Balter (ima!jim)
carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) (08/27/85)
When I read *Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance* it seemed to me that the formidable Chairman who appears in the latter part of the book was a portrait of the late Richard McKeon, whose edition of selected works of Aristotle you have probably seen. McKeon was highly regarded on this campus as a philosopher and teacher, although evidently some students were terrified of him. He died a few months ago. Richard Carnes