mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) (10/05/85)
In article <1843@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: >> Again, I must question the inclusion of "the insides of one's own body" >> as a physical constraint on one's decisions. If we assume pure >> materialism, any decision not only *depends* on body-state, it *is* body >> state, like memory, consciousness, and most of the other good things in >> life. How can one talk about making decisions independently of >> everything that one experiences, remembers, and *is*? Acting contrary >> to one's physical desire is not at all the same thing as acting contrary >> to one's physical make-up. [BABA] >Then, at last, you understand the implicit self-contradiction that makes >free will impossible unless there is an external agent of some sort that >represents the "you", the "will", that is unencumbered by current physical >states. Unfotunately, your "I must question the inclusion of..." statement >sounds an awful lot like someone saying "I must question the inclusion of >Einstein's relativity model in these equations because it makes our elegant >simple equations go 'poof!'". Is there really a model of mental determinism that is as well-estrablished as general relativity? There's no self contradiction at all; it all depends upon whether you accept mental determinism. Mental determinism is just an assumption, not a theory (certainly not one that is well-verified). It is quite controversial. Now the normal method in science in the face of such a controversy is to set up an experimental test. So look at the results of any psychological test. One thing that is immediately striking is the immense variability, both between subjects and with a single subject's performance. I think it is safe to say that the evidence as it now stands strongly favors the presence of random processes. Rich's assertion of determinism is more of a religious faith about the world, akin to Einstein's "God does not place dice with the universe". But as was pointed out by another, "It appears that not only does God play dice, but that he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen." Charley Wingate