[net.philosophy] A Halting followup

berger@aecom.UUCP (Micha Berger) (01/14/86)

In the name of fair play, here is the oppositions comments.



Your assertion that humans can decide the halting problem
doen't stand up under inspection.  Consider a program
that looks for counter-examples to Fermat's Last Theorem.
Mathematicians have trying to prove for many years that
such program will never halt.

Rich


Supposing the procedure halt initiated a background process which
periodically monitored the progress of the procedures, testing 
for a consistent pattern of execution and checking the stack for
possible recursion. 

This is incredibly simplified, but isn't this basically what the
human mind would do in the same situation?

					-- Carl C. Hewitt

franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) (01/15/86)

In article <2190@aecom.UUCP> berger@aecom.UUCP (Micha Berger) writes:
>In the name of fair play, here is the oppositions comments.
>
>Your assertion that humans can decide the halting problem
>doen't stand up under inspection.  Consider a program
>that looks for counter-examples to Fermat's Last Theorem.
>Mathematicians have trying to prove for many years that
>such program will never halt.
>
>Rich
>
>
>Supposing the procedure halt initiated a background process which
>periodically monitored the progress of the procedures, testing 
>for a consistent pattern of execution and checking the stack for
>possible recursion. 
>
>This is incredibly simplified, but isn't this basically what the
>human mind would do in the same situation?

Yes, you can do this.  But this will not detect all possible infinite
loops.  Any possible test for a consistent pattern of execution will
either detect such a pattern for a program which does eventually halt,
or fail to detect such a pattern for program which does not halt.
Think about the Fermat problem.  This program goes through a fairly
simple pattern of execution.  But the exit condition is tricky -- is the
condition ever satisfied, or not?  Hard to tell.  *Very* hard to tell.

Frank Adams                           ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108

drew@ukma.UUCP (Andrew Lawson) (01/17/86)

In article <2190@aecom.UUCP> berger@aecom.UUCP (Micha Berger) writes:
>Supposing the procedure halt initiated a background process which
>periodically monitored the progress of the procedures, testing
>for a consistent pattern of execution and checking the stack for
>possible recursion.
>
>This is incredibly simplified, but isn't this basically what the
>human mind would do in the same situation?
>
>                                        -- Carl C. Hewitt

   This is roughly the same as saying that you can examine
the digits after the decimal in a number to see whether the
expansion terminates.  If a patern of repetition is found,
the expansion is infinite.  So, consider irrational numbers . . .


-- 
Drew Lawson

"Parts is parts."