[net.micro.apple] Results of question on apple c

kurt@pyuxhh.UUCP (K A Gluck) (04/30/84)

I Posted the following request to the net:

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> SUBJECT: apple c net post
> I am looking for information  on C compilers for the apple ][e
> I have heard of ?astek? c but have no information or
> idea how good/bad it is.
> 
> Please mail to me ihnp4!pyuxhh!kurt any info you have on c compilers
> for the apple ][e and I will post the results to the net.
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	Here are the replys.

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> Subject: Re: wanted info on apple c compilers (Aztec C)
> 
> Byte devoted an issue to C last year, and reviewed and compared
> many C compilers for many machines.  Check it out.
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> Subject: Re: wanted info on apple c compilers
> 
> So far as I know, Aztec (like the indians) C is the only reasonable
> compiler available for the Apple.  Get a copy of Byte for
> more info (or an address at least).
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> Subject: Re: wanted info on apple c compilers
> 
> The Manx Aztec C is a very ambitious C for the entire Apple
> 6502 line.  It includes subsets of sh, vi, diff, an archiver,
> and four(!) possible run-time environments which can be mixed
> to some extent, to wit: stand-alone native code, stand-alone
> pseudo-machine code, native code to run under the shell, and
> pseudo-machine code to run under the shell.  Source to the
> run-time libraries is included.  It comes on 6 floppy surfaces.
> 
> There is a catch of course.  There has been a fair amount of
> traffic in net.micro about the total lack of enthusiasm Manx
> has for fixing numerous bugs.  Their typical reply is, "I'm
> sure you can patch that yourself if you just work through the
> library code."  No thanks!
> 
> In short, when it works, it is the best environment I have seen
> for Apple program development.  When it doesn't work, tough.
> 
> If you decide to go for it, and I would recommend that you do,
> buy it from the Programmer Shop (see any InfoWorld).  They are
> good folks.
> 
> Good luck,
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> Subject: Re: wanted info on apple c compilers
> 
> Aztec C is great!  It is full Unix (K & R) compatible.  The CP/M version is
> the one I prefer.
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> May I suggest the Aztec compiler for Apple ][e because it is completely
> (99.995%) with Unix 7 systems.  I write the majority of software I use
> for Unix on Aztec C and then transmit the files up to the system.  Most
> of the source is included in the package, and cross compilers are
> available so I can write something under Aztec CII (Z80 CPM) and run it
> (after recompiling it ** without change in the source code ** ) on the
> for Unix on Aztec C and then transmit the files up to the system.  I
> Apple, Apple + Prodos, CPM, PC DOS, and PDP11 systems.  It does have one
> major disadvantage.  The compilation/link speed tends to be slow
> (ramdisks would be of great help) and it does have a $250 price tag.
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> Subject: Re: wanted info on apple c compilers
> I got AZTEC (from Manx) and *I LOVE IT!!*  It's *very* compatible with the
> K&R standard.  It ain't the fastest compiler in the world, but,  boy, does
> it beat the *&$#$!! out of BASIC...
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> Subject:        wanted info on apple c compilers
> 
> Aztec C is also C-Manx, advertised regularly in BYTE.
> 
> Excellent compatibility, Bit fields and enum types are NOT 
> supported, otherwise std. K&R C.
> 
> Stdio had a few minor bugs, I think they've been fixed..
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> I have Aztec C on my ][e.  I've found some bugs in it, but nothing major.  In
> general I think it is a good system, though not particularly fast.  If you really
> want something to be efficient you'll have to use assembly language.  They provide
> one but it has no macros to speak of and isn't very well documented.  Overall however,
> I would say that I like the product.  In particular it is nice because they provide
> a UNIX-like shell and an editor that bears remarkable similarities to VI.
> 
> (Re: communications devices.  Ascii Express is quite good.  Definitely worth it.)
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> Subject: Re: wanted info on apple c compilers
> 
> The Aztec C compilers:  the C65 (their 6502 version) appears to be quite
> usable, and though they've managed to somehow partition the software so
> that you're not forever swapping 5 1/4 diskettes, it's still clumsy unless
> you have a multi-drive system (as I figure you do).  It is provided with
> a mini-Vi - style editor, and some unix-style commands, which certainly
> help moving files around on the DOS3.3-compatible disks.  I've also found
> that it patches without a hitch to an SVA 8" controller driver, and THAT
> certainly seems to make it a viable system.  No bugs found yet, but then,
> I really haven't been playing with it much.  However, their CII, an 8080
> version, seems to be quite solid, though slow.
> 
> One last note:  the C65 is supplied with both a native code compiler and
> an "interpretive" system, sorta like P-code, in order to permit the user
> to conserve memory.  They both seem to act alike, and for the few routines
> that I've written where screen I/O is intensive (to an 80-column card),
> there's little perceived degradation in speed.  I'm sure I'll see some
> when I have some computations to perform, though.
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	To all of you who answered thanks for the help.
-- 
Kurt Gluck SPL 1c273a  Bell Communications Research Inc 6 Corporate Place	Piscataway NJ, 08854
      ihnp4!pyuxhh!kurt                   (201)-561-7100 x2023