bees@drutx.UUCP (DavisRB) (05/23/84)
16-Apr-84 12:37:50-CST,3101;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 12:37:42-CST Return-Path: <jmh@BNL> Received: from BNL by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Fri 13 Apr 84 18:56:36-PST Date: 13-Apr-84 21:09:22-EST >From: jmh@BNL Subject: Misc. Questions To: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 09:48:12-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; 1. Where on Compuserve are the Basic Macintosh Programs stored? What is the procedure for downloading them (What commands will access the specific section of Compuserve) 2. How can you edit a large text file (created with Mbasic), with MacWrite when the Clipboard reports OUT OF HEAP SPACE. I have only been able to edit small text files by sending them to CLIP, then pasting in MACWRITE. Even then, I find unusual trash characters strewn throughout the document. 3. How do you turn a MBASIC text file into an Mbasic program... (ie, you download a basic program, save it into a text file, and want to push it directly into basic (instead of typing it in yourself)) [the solution on the Apple would be to use the exec command] 4. Are there any calls available from Mbasic to put an accesory, such as the clock, at a certain position on the screen. 5. MBASIC bug: Accessories cannot use the cut and paste menu. When Mbasic is loaded, the Mac forgets all disks that is had lying on the desktop Microsoft told me this was done because memory was needed for other things. 6. MacPaint suggestion: Always put Macpaint on a start-up disk (one with the system folder), and run it from that disk... otherwise excessive disk swaps will result, every time you move the picture around, or use the TEXT entry mode. 7. Today, I received a packet from Microsoft which was labelled "Calling ROM Routines. It mentions that the Quickdraw programmers Guide is available from Apple. If you need any specific information on the Quickdraw routines drop me a note, and I will check the packet for information. The subtitles are: Parameters Rectangle Cursor Pattern X,Y Coordinates Miscellaneous integers Functions <descriptions of each of the Calls listed in Appendix E of the MBasic manual> In addition, there is a 32 line terminal emulator called smallterm.bas which is useful for those who don't want to type in MacTEP... smallterm.bas sets the baud, parity, stop bits, data bits, and goes into terminal mode. 8. I have heard rumors that the 256K chips will be available in June... Has anyone heard similar things? 9. I was told that MacTerminal (originally scheduled to be released in April is not going to be available until June... (this was told to me by a (make that an) Authorized Apple Dealer. That's all for now... I will appreciate any help you can offer... Joel M. Heller (jmh@BNL) or (!philabs!sbcs!BNL!jmh) 16-Apr-84 13:17:32-CST,2665;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 13:17:23-CST Return-Path: <vinter%umass-cs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa> Received: from csnet-relay by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Fri 13 Apr 84 22:16:22-PST Received: by csnet-relay via xumass-cs; 14 Apr 84 1:15 EST Date: Fri, 13 Apr 84 08:38 EST >From: Stephen Vinter <vinter%umass-cs.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa> To: info-mac%sumex-aim.arpa@csnet-relay.arpa Subject: Lisa 2 questions ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 09:50:44-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; I'm in the dark about a number of things concerning the Lisa, and I can't seem to get questions answered elsewhere. Help would be greatly appreciated. Concerning software: Are there any good DBMS systems around? LisaList isn't very impressive. How about word processing programs more powerful than LisaWrite? Can they be integrated with the other Lisa office programs (i.e., run concurrently and able to transfer info easily between them)? What are the improvements expected in the Lisa office programs? I understood that LisaWrite was going to include footnotes. Surely there must be other, more substantial, improvements. How good is LisaTerminal? What terminals can it emulate? One problem I noted with an upgraded Lisa I running with a hard disk was than it was very slow to open new files and 'tools' (10-30 seconds). Is any improvement to this problem in sight? Concerning hardware: Is there any different between the Lisa II/5 and Lisa II/10 other than the disk capacity and the hard disk being inside? Is the I/O done any faster? How much of the 5M with the Lisa II/5 is used to hold the tools, and how much is left over for work space? How significant is the redundancy - in other words, how much space is really available for data files? The clearest font off the Lisa matrix printer wasn't nearly as clear as what comes off the Epson FX-80. Is it possible to configure the Epson with the Lisa without giving up any printing capabilities? If not, are there other dot-matrix printers other than what comes from Apple that I could use? Are there any other significant hardware/software problems that I should be aware of (apart from any philosophical differences people may have with the Lisa/Mac approach to computing)? I'm willing to live with the speed difference between the Mac and Lisa, and intend to take advantage of the Mac emulation on the Lisa, but understand that I have to give up multi-tasking to do it. Steve Vinter 16-Apr-84 13:41:50-CST,1297;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 13:41:45-CST Return-Path: <hxo@cmu-cs-spice.arpa> Received: from CMU-CS-SPICE.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Sat 14 Apr 84 10:53:37-PST Date: 14 Apr 1984 13:47:50-EST >From: Harry.Orenstein at CMU-CS-SPICE Subject: Re:Re: Periph. Actually.. ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 09:51:11-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; In the way of response to Randy Frank's message concerning "How can Davong use the RS-422 port for the hard disk?"... this is simplicity itself, since the Mac is made to be used with central devices on the A-Net. The RS-422 IS the connection to the A-Net (PLEASE, someone correct me if I am wrong, this is what Apple seemed to say when I spoke to them after an on-campus lecture). This means that any device capable of acting as a netted device on A-Net (I assume this is how the Davong unit does it) can be accessed over the net with the proper leading message requesting the hard disk. The real question is.. how fast is it? The RS-422 port has a maximum speed of 1Mbaud and that, combined with the net style data transmission should degrade the effective speed of the hard disk. Harry O. 16-Apr-84 14:31:42-CST,2031;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 14:31:31-CST Return-Path: <Mackey.PA@Xerox.ARPA> Received: from Xerox.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Sun 15 Apr 84 21:03:31-PST Received: from Riesling.ms by ArpaGateway.ms ; 15 APR 84 21:03:56 PST Date: 15 Apr 84 21:03:51 PST (Sunday) Subject: Tiring Mouse UI To: Info-Mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA cc: Mackey.PA@Xerox.ARPA >From: Kevin <Mackey.PA@Xerox.ARPA> ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 09:52:17-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; Douglas Engelbart, inventor of the mouse, gave a talk at Xerox PARC a few days ago. He commented on having used LisaDraw, and how tired his right arm became while his left arm dangled uselessly at his side. Around the time the mouse was developed, there was also a "keyset" which had five keys for the left hand to chord. This would let you enter characters that would be treated as commands or text to enter. This is something he is used to. This illustrated something I don't like about the Lisa and Macintosh user interfaces: they overload the mouse. Most operations are invoked using the mouse, rather than also using function keys. Though there are control keys to invoke some operations, they are hard to remember, are different for each application, and difficult to use since you must press the control key at the same time you press the letter. For instance, while in the Finder, control-I (which is a bit hard to type) does Get Info, while in MacWrite control-I does Italic. Notice also that control-P was not used for Paste since it's so awkward, but instead control-V, which is non-mnemonic. It seems that Apple became mouse-happy and tried to make it do too much. This may have justified the lack of a row of virtual keys on the keyboard, or at least keys for commonly used commands, like Cut and Paste. They tried to move away from the keyboard rather than melding it with the mouse. ~Kevin 16-Apr-84 14:50:48-CST,1901;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 14:50:40-CST Return-Path: <@SU-SCORE.ARPA:Spitzer.Multics@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Received: from SU-SCORE.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 07:42:21-PST Received: from CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA by SU-SCORE.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 07:40:21-PST Received: from HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA by CISL-SERVICE-MULTICS.ARPA dial; 16-Apr-1984 10:26:05-est Date: Sat, 14 Apr 84 10:42 MST >From: MMMcNally.Scouting@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA Message-ID: <840414174228.531423@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Resent-Date: 16 Apr 84 07:27 MST Resent-From: Charlie Spitzer <Spitzer@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Resent-To: info-mac@SU-SCORE.ARPA Resent-Message-ID: <840416142717.495105@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 09:52:36-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; Although MS-Basic isn't PL/I or even Pascle I myself have no major complaints. The editing system makes I.B.M.'s version look like the obsolete code it is. But, in truth, I will most likely drop MS as soon as MacBasic comes out. For those of you who haven't read it's description in Byte I strongly recomend it. A few Notes on Basic: As previously noted "Clear,25000" gives the user more programming space, but only at the expense of the heap. Well, after using that command, I felt like I was programming in sludge. When I tried scrolling my list window EVERY SINGLE LINE had to be called off of the disk. I tried some fiddling around and found that around "Clear,20000" is the largest clear statement that will give you more memory, but not kill the systems speed. The system boots with a "Clear,14***" already in process, so you can acquire about another 5K with "Clear,20000" ==matt mcnally 16-Apr-84 15:43:49-CST,1055;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 15:43:46-CST Return-Path: <dtw@cmu-cs-ius.arpa> Received: from CMU-CS-IUS.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Sat 14 Apr 84 23:22:20-PST Date: 15 Apr 1984 02:26:58-EST >From: Duane.Williams at CMU-CS-IUS Subject: Macintosh bugs ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 09:51:56-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; I think it is great that people can transmit bug reports so conveniently to Apple via this mailing list. I am wondering, though, whether, and if so when and by what mechanism, we can expect to benefit from our efforts. The written material that accompanies Apple software says that Apple takes no responsibility for its working properly, and gives no hint about whether users can ever expect to be given bug fixes. Does anyone know whether Apple plans to distribute debugged code to those who were brave enough to purchase the early release versions? Duane (dtw@cmu-cs-ius) 16-Apr-84 16:24:00-CST,1114;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 16:23:55-CST Return-Path: <REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA> Received: from NYU-ACF1.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Sat 14 Apr 84 21:10:34-PST Date: 15 Apr 84 00:15 EST >From: Richard Reich <REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA> To: Piersol.Pasa@XEROX.ARPA Subject: RE: reading those mactep downloaded files Cc: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA Message-ID: <106016774.00E90041.1984@ACF1.NYU-ACF1.ARPA> In-Reply-To: <8404130237.AA00627@NYU.ARPA> ; Message of 13-APR-1984 15:59 from Piersol.Pasa@Xerox.ARPA ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 14:10:14-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; What follows is a program that examines and (optionally) changes the FileDataType of a Mac file. After, changing the type of, say, a MacTEP downloaded file to TEXT (case is supposed to be significant), click MacWrite, shift-click the significant), click MacWrite, shift-click the file icon, then click (File menu) Open. -r -------- [Ed. File is on {SUMEX-AIM}<INFO-MAC>ModifyFInfo.Bas] 16-Apr-84 16:25:28-CST,1283;000000000000 Return-Path: <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> Received: from SUMEX-AIM.ARPA by UTEXAS-20.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 16:25:25-CST Return-Path: <wrs@cmu-cs-spice.arpa> Received: from CMU-CS-SPICE.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Mon 16 Apr 84 13:48:31-PST Date: 16 Apr 1984 16:42:26-EST >From: Walter.Smith at CMU-CS-SPICE Subject: Finder bug ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 13:54:43-PST ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA> ReSent-To: info-mac: ; In a post around Apr. 4, Ben Hyde warned not to empty the trash when there is an info window open on a document in the trash can. His warning was a bit understated. The first time I did this (on purpose, using a trash disk), the "serious system error ID=02" (bomb) box appeared, and the system restarted just fine. Unfortunately, the second time (on another, useful disk) had more serious results. Attempting to boot with this disk causes the "sad Mac" icon to appear, with code 0F009D (I'm not certain of the 9D part, but it's definitely two digits, so it's not in the table posted earlier). Attempting to use it while a system is running produces the "This disk is unreadable; do you want to initialize it" message. I hope this bug is fixed in the new Finder. -Walter Smith (wrs@CMU-CS-SPICE) -------