[net.micro.apple] INFO-MAC Articles - 5 of 8

bees@drutx.UUCP (DavisRB) (05/23/84)

18-Apr-84 13:15:16-CST,1152;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 84 15:14:48 PST
>From: Rutenberg.pa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: A small Mac editor
In-Reply-To: "Bruce.Lucas@CMU-CS-IUS.ARPA's message of Tue, 17 Apr 84
 12:45:27 EST"
To: Bruce.Lucas@CMU-CS-IUS.ARPA
cc: Info-Mac@Sumex-Aim.ARPA
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:02:58-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

I think the idea of a very small & fast editor is great!  Using the
routines which are already in Rom for editing and disk access, you could
build something which takes up *very* little space (it could fit on each
of your disks & would load quickly).

I doubt it would take much assembler glue to put those routines together
into an editor.  No fonts & possibly undo -- not something to write a
paper on, just enough for a small quick change.

	Mike
16-Apr-84 17:01:27-CST,933;000000000000
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Date: 16 Apr 84 16:51 EST
>From: Richard Reich <REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
To: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
Subject: ModifyFInfo program (new version, 1.1)
Message-ID: <1075CA176.00300033.1984@ACF1.NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
ReSent-date: Mon 16 Apr 84 14:11:11-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

This version allows setting (or not) both file type and creator.  FYI, to
make a file into a MacWrite document, use type=TEXT and creator=MACA.
I'm sorry that mailers, systems, etc., will certainly chop the long lines
of this program into shorter statement fragments.
-r
-------------

[Ed. Updated source on {SUMEX-AIM}<INFO-MAC>ModifyFInfo.bas]
17-Apr-84 10:26:11-CST,1404;000000000000
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Date:  Mon, 16 Apr 84 18:57 MST
>From:  MMMcNally@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA
Subject:  256K Chips
To:  Spitzer.Multics@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA
Message-ID:  <840417015721.362305@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA>
Resent-Date:  17 Apr 84 07:09 MST
Resent-From:  Charlie Spitzer <Spitzer@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA>
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ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

Yes , 256K chips are currently available.  At present they run around 65
dollars a shot though.  Considering that you will require 18 chips, it
will cost aproximately $1,170.00 to upgrade your Mac to 512K.  These
prices are for the mitsubishi 256k chip, pruchased through CYTK.  I
would be happy to order any chips that you may desire, but I would be
much happier if someone could fine a cheaper sorce.

                                        ==Matt
17-Apr-84 10:56:07-CST,2040;000000000000
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Date: 17 Apr 1984 09:53:15-EST
>From: Kevin.Dowling at CMU-RI-ROVER
Subject: MacBasic & Pascal
ReSent-date: Tue 17 Apr 84 08:09:02-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;


Having used MacBasic and MacPascal for several days now I've noticed a couple 
of things. For one doing graphics is exceptionally easy. I haven't seen or
used MS-Basic for the Mac but I haven't found the plethora of bugs that 
previous posts have mentioned being in MS-Basic in MacBasic. One problem with
MacBasic (this version anyway) is that they use a scaled 12 point font and
it resembles on the screen a degenerate San Francisco Font. The Only
10 Point font I've seen is Seattle 10. I've tried playing with FontMover
but haven't had any success in making the scaling problem going away.

MacPascal uses three windows (Program, Text, Drawing) where Program (obviously)
is your current program you're working on. Kind of like MacWrite style editing.
Auto indent and auto-bolds reserved words. (This is real nice to work in)
Some simple drawing routine are provided for drawing lines, ovals, rectangles,
etc... You can invert as you draw, thus getting a kind of X-oring feature for
overlapped objects.  A very nice tracing feature is provided and a little 
indicator shows you where in the program you currently are. Most commands
allow you to use the Command key instead of Mouse hunting all the time.
The Text window is your Writeln outputs and your drawing window is graphic 
output.

Psacal seems to have a stack problem with more than 200 procedure or
subroutine calls makes it bomb out. Hope this gets fixed...



					nivek
ARPA: nivek@cmu-ri-rover
BELL: (412) 578-8830
USMAIL : Robotics Institute c/o CMU
	 Schenley Park
17-Apr-84 11:13:42-CST,1788;000000000000
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>From: Mendelson.es@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: randomness...
In-reply-to: "MBF@CMU-CS-C.ARPA's message of Wed, 11 Apr 84 04:26:20
 EST"
To: MBF@CMU-CS-C.ARPA
cc: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Tue 17 Apr 84 08:46:38-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

Whoever wrote the referenced messsage is absolutely correct.  The
original design of an Alto-like successor machine with a purportedly two
to one performance ratio over the Alto ran its macro-code at 190 KIPs
when no I/O was running, and the display was blank!!  In its original
design it took 9% of the microcycles just to run a blank display. The
original design sampled the mouse during the display retrace time so the
machine had to do a task switch into the display task to sample the
mouse even when the display wasn't running.  I believe that design goof
was fixed, but it shows how much an Alto-like implementation degrades
macro-code performance to handle all of the peripherals through the
micro-code.  The microcode is involved with every memory transfer for
every device so any significant I/O bandwidth drastically reduces
macro-code performance.

It was characteristics such as this that were, in part, the point of my
previous message about the inadequacy of an Alto implementation as a
marketable product.  Notice that I no longer use the phrase "productize"
in this context.

Jerry

17-Apr-84 11:45:45-CST,966;000000000000
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Date: Tue 17 Apr 84 10:40:16-CST
>From: Werner Uhrig  <CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>
Subject: Jim Seymour's "Micro Business" discusses Macs
To: info-mac@UTEXAS-20.ARPA
ReSent-date: Tue 17 Apr 84 08:47:02-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

For an interesting view-point on the present and future value of
a MacIntosh, read Jim Seymour's syndicated editorial "Micro Business",
which appeared in the Austin local paper on Monday, April 16, 1984.

Very refreshing, after having been assaulted by recent postings by some
people here.  Myself, I'll keep a clipping and make it required reading
for anyone asking me about my opinion of the Mac.


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17-Apr-84 13:12:29-CST,1561;000000000000
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Date: 17 Apr 1984 12:45:27-EST
>From: Bruce.Lucas at CMU-CS-IUS
Subject: requests
ReSent-date: Tue 17 Apr 84 10:36:57-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac-dist@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA

Dear Apple,

Can we conclude that Macterminal will do the "right thing" wrt to file
transfers, namely that MacWrite documents, MacPaint documents, etc. can be
transferred to the remote system and retrieved, and still appear as the
appropriate document type?  This  (1) will allow remote file archival, (2)
will allow file interchange between Macintoshes, and (3) will allow us to
get our grubby hands on all the bitsies the Macintosh applications have
access to, so e.g. we could write a laser printer driver for our local
system.  Seems like two transfer modes would be useful: straight text, and
data.

On another note, it seems ashame that there isn't a simple text file editor
on the Macintosh.  True, there is the notepad, but there can only be one of
them.  How about named notepads, or someone suggested it would be nice if
you could "tear a page off" of the notepad and put it in a file, which you
could put into a folder and could later inspect by reading back into the
notepad.  How about something like this in future versions of the system?

Bruce Lucas
17-Apr-84 13:39:36-CST,853;000000000000
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Date:           Tue, 17 Apr 84 09:43:27 PST
>From:           Peter Homeier <homeier@AEROSPACE>
To:             nivek@cmu-ri-rover
CC:             info-mac@sumex-aim
Subject:        MacPascal benchmark request
ReSent-date: Tue 17 Apr 84 10:37:30-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

If you have MacPascal running, could you try the Sieve of Eratosthenes 
benchmark from BYTE?  A lot of people are impressed with MacPascal's reported
features, and would like to know how fast it is, how long programs can be,
etc.  How much of a serious tool is it?
18-Apr-84 12:23:55-CST,794;000000000000
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Date: Tuesday, 17 April 1984 16:43:39 EST
>From: Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.arpa
Subject: MacTEP v1.81
Message-ID: <1984.4.17.21.36.15.Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa>
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:02:37-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

Here is the latest version of the MacTEP terminal program.  It seems to
work much better than the previous version.
                    --------------------

[Ed. New version on {SUMEX-AIM}<INFO-MAC>MACTEP.BAS]
18-Apr-84 12:42:07-CST,962;000000000000
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Date:     Tue, 17 Apr 84 16:41:04 CST
>From: Mike Caplinger <mike@rice.ARPA>
Subject:  modems and the DA-9
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.ARPA
Message-Id:  <mike.548@Dione.rice>
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:02:48-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

I'm a little confused about the comment in MacTEP about the connections
3->7, 5->2, 8->1, 9->3.  What happened to DTR?  Is it safe to connect
the 12V pin to the DTR pin on the modem, as Edward Tecot suggests?  I
am not the world's greatest RS-232 expert, obviously; does DTR want a
12 volt signal?

I have a Rixon 212 modem, if that makes any difference.
18-Apr-84 13:15:16-CST,1152;000000000000
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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 84 15:14:48 PST
>From: Rutenberg.pa@Xerox.ARPA
Subject: Re: A small Mac editor
In-Reply-To: "Bruce.Lucas@CMU-CS-IUS.ARPA's message of Tue, 17 Apr 84
 12:45:27 EST"
To: Bruce.Lucas@CMU-CS-IUS.ARPA
cc: Info-Mac@Sumex-Aim.ARPA
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:02:58-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

I think the idea of a very small & fast editor is great!  Using the
routines which are already in Rom for editing and disk access, you could
build something which takes up *very* little space (it could fit on each
of your disks & would load quickly).

I doubt it would take much assembler glue to put those routines together
into an editor.  No fonts & possibly undo -- not something to write a
paper on, just enough for a small quick change.

	Mike
18-Apr-84 13:43:30-CST,951;000000000000
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>From: John W. Peterson <JW-Peterson@UTAH-20.ARPA>
Subject: Simple text editor for the mac
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:03:33-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;


There is a simple text editor called "File" distributed with the Lisa toolkit.
This program is a multi-window version of MacWrite without all the word
processor fluff.  I've used it quite extensivly to edit files locally on the
Mac and later upload them to a host with MacTerm.  One of its strong points
is the availability of the well-commented source, which makes adding features 
relativly easy.


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18-Apr-84 14:12:35-CST,2972;000000000000
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Date: Tue 17 Apr 84 22:25:53-CST
>From: Werner Uhrig  <CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Jim Seymour's "Micro Business" discusses Macs
To: info-mac@UTEXAS-20.ARPA
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:10:35-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

I got piles of friendly and 'not so friendly' mail, asking for more info
on the contents of the editorial.

I understand that Jim Seymore is a nationally syndicated writer, and a quick
check with your library might show that they carry a paper who subscribes.

In reply to those sending 'friendly' notes:  I was torn between posting a
simple quick pointer to the column, or nothing at all, as I did not have the
time to summarize, not to think of typing the complete column.  Maybe I should
have waited until I had more time, or not bothered, but I thought you folks
know that a simple call to the local library opens up a realm of information.
As those of you who know me from other groups may attest, I, often, spend
significant time typing, to pass on as much info as possible, but yesterday
there was no free time.  However, I'll try to get a list of the major papers
that carry the column, either from the paper, the library, or whereever.
Maybe some of you who have seen his column in major papers could help me and
post a note.

To the 'unfriendlies', I'd like to say "Eat it, and, hopefully, Choke".
I am not 'stupid enough to think that you are all in Austin', or 'reading
the Austin paper', my pointer to "syndicated editorial" should have made
clear that that was not expected of you.  I made reference to the printing
date in the local paper as a helpful hint, as other papers should be
printing it around the same time.  I introduced the column as an
"interesting viewpoint"  and am not 'preaching the new gospel', I don't
preach at all but provide information to help others make up their own
opinion.  And rather than give my opinion to the uninitiated questioner,
I have him read what others have said, rather than talk my lips bloody.

	why do some people always seem to foam at the mouth ?

		Cheers,	(trying hard to)
				Werner ------- 


[Ed. Note - In remailing Werner's original message to INFO-MAC, I assumed
readers would understand that with Jim Seymour being a syndicated columnist,
this source of information would be available to everyone if they chose to
pursue it, and not just the readers in Austin. The mention of the Austin paper
was taken as a courtesy to those on the list at Utexas. I, along with Werner,
thought readers would understand that and not bitch. Enough said. In the
future, please think a bit before clogging the net with flames.]
18-Apr-84 14:48:30-CST,1187;000000000000
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>From: Mike Donegan <donegan@rice.ARPA>
Message-Id: <8404181441.AA12361@rice.ARPA>
To: PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA, info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
Subject: when repairing disks
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:10:47-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

Folder information is kept track of in a hidden file -- Desktop File (?)
which the finder maintains.  What I find irritating is that since folders
are not real, i.e. known by the O.S., an application cannot create a file
in a folder.  So even though I keep BASIC programs in a folder, whenever I save
one it finds its way back to the desktop.  I assume that the Finder upon discovering a bad disk decides that the desktop file is bogus and throws it away.
Thus you get a pristine desk with all your files lying around in the disk window.

	mkd
18-Apr-84 15:20:09-CST,2730;000000000000
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Date: Wed 18 Apr 84 05:32:58-CST
>From: Werner Uhrig  <CMP.WERNER@UTEXAS-20.ARPA>
Subject: Summary of Seymour's Column [addressing the business community, mainly]
To: info-mac@UTEXAS-20.ARPA
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:11:45-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

[ I apologize to Jim, should he be "watching" for any errors I
  made in condensing his fine article, and any copy-rights I may
  be breaking.  I encourage all readers to make an effort to
  read the article by purchasing one of the papers that carry the
  column, regularly.  My posting this should not be construed
  that my personal opinion is identical to Jim's, but rather,
  that I consider this an excellent introduction to the topic. Werner ]


     The MAC is a Great Machine, but Beware the Software Gap
   ===========================================================
	(Jim Seymour's syndicated column:  MICRO BUSINESS, mid-April )

I feel like I've spent two months answering one question from
readers, clients, friends, strangers:  "Should I buy a Mac?"

Take your choice: Yes, absolutely; maybe, not yet.  .. depends on
what you want to do with it, and when.

The Mac is a brilliantly designed, very compact, very powerful computer.
It's absolutely the easiest-to-use computer in existence, in many
ways it can run rings around [ most other micros ].  It's
footprint is no bigger than a piece of stationary.  And it's
cheap, at $3600 including a good dot-matrix printer, word
processing, graphics, and spread-sheet software, it's a bargain.

But, there's not much software yet, so it may not fulfill your needs
for awhile, otherwise you should run, not walk, and plunk down a
deposit at the nearest computer-store, because the Mac is not
only the third industry standard, behind Apple II and IBM's PC,
it's also going to be a very important machine for the rest of
the decade.  And the software-gap won't last long, as Softcon in
New Orleans showed lots of half-finished products under development.
[ a list followed; BPI accounting, Think Tank, pfs: file
and report, Lotus 1-2-3, among others ]

But if you want a business machine to use tomorrow morning, the
PC [ and clones ]  has a big lead, and will always have more
software available, the MAC will never catch up.

....

To hell with making people computer-literate. I want computers
that are people-literate.  The Mac's a fine start.
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18-Apr-84 15:54:42-CST,954;000000000000
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Date: Wed 18 Apr 84 10:49:58-PST
>From: Joseph I. Pallas <PALLAS@SU-SCORE.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Simple text editor for the mac
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "John W. Peterson <JW-Peterson@UTAH-20.ARPA>" of Wed 18 Apr 84 10:39:05-PST
ReSent-date: Wed 18 Apr 84 13:32:08-PST
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;

Great, but can people without the Lisa tookit get that editor?

Apple:  Like it or not, people ARE going to want to develop software
for the Mac on the Mac, since not everyone can afford a Mac and a
Lisa.  Unless you want Mac to be "the computer for the rest of them,"
you ought to keep that in mind.

joe
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