bees@drutx.UUCP (05/23/84)
---------------
1) 8-May Tony Siegman Will Mac Drive a ProFile?
2) 8-May spoo%toronto.csnet@c Software/Hardware for the Mac (long)
3) 8-May Jerry E. Pournelle Toolbox equates for peons
4) 8-May mark@harvard (Mark L Re: Teaching assembly language programming,
5) 8-May STERNLIGHT Re: Toolbox equates for peons
6) 8-May Mike Brzustowicz Landscape drawing in MacPaint
7) 8-May Chad Leland Mitchell Re: Toolbox equates for peons
8) 8-May Mike Russell About color and other topics.
9) 9-May Randy Frank Re: Toolbox equates for peons
10) 9-May LEVITT%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC Toolbox equates for peons
11) 9-May Jerry E. Pournelle Toolbox equates for peons
12) 10-May Stuart Reges ImageWriter for dissertations at Stanford?
13) 10-May Duane.Williams at CM Microsoft diskless!
14) 10-May Michael Rubin getting inside the Mac....
15) 10-May Avadis.Tevanian at C MacTerminal bugs?
16) 10-May Michael Rubin Speculations, ramblings and flame (long)
17) 10-May David.Anderson at CM WYSIWYG?
18) 10-May Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs Re: Toolbox equates for peons
19) 10-May Peter.Su at CMU-CS-G toolbox
20) 10-May Bjorn Lindskog MAC in Europe
21) 11-May Chad Leland Mitchell price
22) 11-May byard @ dca-eur
23) 11-May Richard Furuta How well is the Mac selling?
24) 11-May Alan Crosswell Re: MAC in Europe
25) 11-May Cagan.PA@XEROX.ARPA Re: Accurate Info for your column
26) 11-May "William D. Cattey" Macwrite pains
27) 11-May Kenneth Clark flame about color Macs...
28) 12-May Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs Clarification
29) 12-May Peterr%toronto.csnet The number of Macs sold
30) 12-May David.Anderson at CM Re: How well is the Mac selling?
31) 14-May Dave Farber from Compuserve
32) 14-May Dave Farber previous program -- color.bas
33) 14-May Wang Zeep Power
34) 14-May Richard Reich RE: How well is the Mac selling?
35) 14-May Jerry E. Pournelle Toolbox equates for peons
36) 14-May Andrew W. Donoho Protocol for SendOne/GetFile???
37) 14-May Kevin.Dowling at CMU Printer
38) 14-May Chad Leland Mitchell price
39) 14-May Dave Farber Query on rs232/422 mac connectors
40) 14-May Richard Reich
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From: Tony Siegman <SIEGMAN@SU-SIERRA.ARPA>
Subject: Will Mac Drive a ProFile?
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 08:32:47-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
...either at present, or likely later on?
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From: spoo%toronto.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
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To: info-mac@sumex-aim.arpa
Subject: Software/Hardware for the Mac (long)
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 08:32:49-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
While I was at a local computer center (Toronto) play-
ing with the Mac, I was given a list of hardware/software
that would be out, so they say, by the end of this year.
Here it is:
Package Application Company
_____________________________________________________________________________
Accounts Payable Accounting Great Plains Software
" " BPI Systems
Accounts Receivable " BPI Systems
" " Great Plains Software
General Accounting " BPI Systems
General Ledger " Great Plains Software
Home Accounting " Ask Micro
Payroll " BPI Systems
" " Great Plains Software
Small Business Accountant " C.P.U.
Small Business Accounting " Continental Software
The Home Accountant " "
Microsoft Chart Business Graphics Microsoft
The Calendar Calendar Hayden Software
Database Management System Database Microrim
Database/File Management " DB Master Associates
Friday! " Ashton-Tate
Graphics and Database " Telos Software Products
Keystroke Database " Brock Software Products
Keystroke Report Base " "
Megafinder " Megahaus
Microsoft File " Microsoft
pfs: FILE " Software Publishing Corp.
pfs: REPORT " "
The List Manager " Hayden
UNIFY " Unify
NPL/database " Desktop Software
dbase II " Ashton-Tate
3270/3770 Communications Datacomm Parsyst
Communications System " Hayes
" " Microcom
Graphics terminal emulator " Creative Solutions
Mac comm. package " Dilithium (!) Software
Business Simulation Education Kriya Systems
Education " Odesta
Speed Reading " Kriya Systems
The Management Edge " Human Edge Software
The Negotiation Edge " "
The Sales Edge " "
Think Tank " Living Videotext
Typing tutor " Southwestern Data Systems
Typing tutor III " Sir Tech
Baron Game Blue Chip Software
Brain Games " Dilithium Software
Dollars and Sense " Monogram
Education Simulation " Harvard (Hahvahd) Associates
Enchanter " Infocom
Go " Hayden
Infidel " Infocom
Mac Tutor " Dilithium Software
MacManager (business sim.) " Harvard Associates
Millionaire " Blue Chip Software
Planet Fall " Infocom
Run for the money " Scarborough Systems
Sargon III " Hayden
Snake Byte " Sirius
Squire " Blue Chip Software
Suspended " Infocom
Telofacts I " Dilithium Software
Telofacts II " "
The Coveted Mirror " Penguin Software
The Graphic Magician " "
The Quest " "
Transylvania " "
Tycoon " Blue Chip Software
Type Attack " Sirius Software
Wizardry " Simon and Schuster
Zork I,II,III " Infocom
Deadline " "
3780/3270 Bisync Em Hardware Winterhalter
4-Port Serial Card " UniPress Software
Buffer " Tecmar
" " Microtek
Datatalker " Winterhalter
Expansion Chassis " Tecmar
IEEE 488 " "
Intelligent Modem " Prometheus Products
Intelligent Telephone " Artsci
MacTape (tape backup) " Davong
Mem. Expansion " Microtek
Networking " Davong
Printer Interface " Microtek
Removable Cartridge Disk " Tecmar
Tape/Disk drive " Davong
Winchester " Tecmar
Disk Drive " Davong
Disk Emulation " Microtek
Dr. Logo Language Digital Research
Forth. Dev. System " Creative Solutions
Microsoft Basic " guess who?
MacProject Spreadsheet Apple
1-2-3 " Lotus
Butter " Hayden
Exective Productivity Tool " Execuware
Financial Planning " Chang Laboratories
Graph 'n Calc " Desktop Computer Software
Integrated Spreadsheet " Sorcin
Jack 2 " Business Solutions
Microsoft Budget " Microsoft
Microsoft Cash Plan " "
Microsoft Fin. Analysis " "
Microsoft MultiPlan " "
The Planner " Hayden
Estate Tax Planner Tax Aardvark/McGraw Hill
Personal Tax Planner " "
Professional Tax Planner " "
MacWord Word Processor Apple
Megaspeller " Megahaus
Megawriter " "
Microsoft Word " Microsoft
All the above products were quoted as being available in
1984.
>From the pooped paws of:
Suk Lee
USENET ..!{decvax,linus,allegra,ihnp4}!utcsrgv!spoo
CSnet spoo at toronto
ARPA "decvax!utcsrgv!spoo"@BERKELEY
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Date: 8 May 1984 03:27-EDT
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Toolbox equates for peons
To: REICH @ NYU-ACF1
cc: INFO-MAC @ SUMEX-AIM
In-reply-to: Msg of 3 May 84 18:34 EDT from Richard Reich <REICH at NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 08:32:53-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Fascin ating, iosn't it. Two of my shills, both highly
wualified programmer types, have been rejected as developers.
Except for BIG BUSINESS types who get along nicely with the new
Apple Image, exactly who HAS BEEN ACCEPTED as a Developer? What
are teh criteria? Or is this another -- well, there are terms
for it.
TI told hobbyistsz and hackers to drop dead, twice.
Long live the 99/4A
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From: mark@harvard (Mark Lentczner)
Message-Id: <8405081604.AA01735@harvard.UUCP>
To: FISCHER@RUTGERS, TIM@MIT-MC
Subject: Re: Teaching assembly language programming, Mac style
Cc: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 14:21:53-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Grrrrrrrreat Idea!
I really like the idea of using the sound capabilities
to work the way FM radio near the processor does! I have
written several compositions that involve FM radio & CPU.
I'm going to look back to that stuff and see how I worked
it...
Who knows... Sound Debugging (all puns intended) I Like That!
-mark
electronic music studio
music department
harvard university
cambridge, ma 02138
decvax!genrad!wjh12!harvard!mark
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From: STERNLIGHT <STERNLIGHT@USC-ECL.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Toolbox equates for peons
To: POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA, REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA
cc: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA, STERNLIGHT@USC-ECL.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>" of Tue 8 May 84 00:27:00-PDT
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 14:21:57-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Jerry, you're at it again. Because two "of my shills, both highly
qualified programmer types, have been rejected as developers" you
infer that "BIG BUSINESS types who get along nicely with the new Apple
Image" are the main accepted developers. Cowdoody. I have a
consulting firm of two, including myself. We are not only certified,
but also registered developers (direct access to Apple, electronic
mail account, etc.) How did we do it. Simple. We have a product
already in existence which has been sold to several buyers of
substance, and runs on an existing (IBM PC) machine, and we can prove
it to Apple. We have NO image, just product. Nobody ever heard of us
except our customers and others in our professional field (economics).
We didn't know anybody at Apple nor did we meet anyone there prior to
becoming registered developers. We have no vast corporate or
financial resources. We're just legitimate developers. But I'll bet
Apple is flooded by applications from programmers who say they are
developers yet have not got any legitimate product out there.
Everyone would LOVE to get the developer discount on hardware and
software but only actual developers do. What about 'new' developers
who have not yet produced and sold product? I guess they first have
to create at least one product and market it successfully before Apple
will accept them. Same in your profession. You can say you're a
writer all you want but until you've had something published, I'll
believe you're a writer; your mother will believe you're a writer, but
writers? Isn't it about time you got off your (sometimes virulent)
anti-Apple prejudice and took facts for what they were, assuming a
legitimate explanation rather than base motives unless and until
proven otherwise? --david--
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Date: 8 May 84 11:40:51 PDT (Tue)
From: Mike Brzustowicz <mab@aids-unix>
Subject: Landscape drawing in MacPaint
To: info-mac@sumex-aim
Cc: mab@aids-unix
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 14:22:01-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I have a question from off the net:
"I want to use MacPaint to draw pictures that are wider than they are tall
[landscape instead of the usual portrait]. I know I can rotate lassoed
portions of a picture, but any such rotated portion of the picture that
falls outside the window gets lost. (Basically, I want to turn my piece
of paper sideways). Anyone know how to do this?"
Thanks!
-Mike <mab@AIDS-UNIX>
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Date: Tue 8 May 84 12:51:24-PDT
From: Chad Leland Mitchell <M.CHAD@SU-SIERRA.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Toolbox equates for peons
To: POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA
cc: M.CHAD@SU-SIERRA.ARPA, info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>" of Tue 8 May 84 00:27:00-PDT
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 14:22:10-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Let us remember what the certified developer program is all about. If
one is accepted as a certified developer, one can get hardware at a
discount. Period. Without certified developer status, one can still
buy Macs and Lisas, and can get Inside Macintosh and all necessary tools.
There is a special developer status (something like "registered" I think)
which allows you to use electronic mail, etc. for help but that costs and
I doubt that many "hackers" would be interested.
Apple seems to have a simple formula for accepting certified developers.
If it seems that a person/company is likely to use the machines purchased
to develop software which will sell or otherwise have wide distribution
on the Mac then they qualify. If it seems that the Certified Developer
status is going to be used simply to buy cheap machines for personal use,
then why should they qualify? The application of this test seems to also
follow a simple formula. If you have a company (size >=1) which has developed
and marketed any software then you probably qualify. If you have a company
(size >=1) which has a plan for some interesting software and some kind of
development schedule then you p[robably qualify. If you are an individual
with similar qualifications then you probably qualify although not quite as
easily.
I assume that you don't expect Apple to just give away certified developer
status to anyone who wants to buy a machine. That would be equivalent to
just placing all hardware on a massive discount (which while we would all
like would be improbable as long as they continue to sell every Mac they
make as fast as they can ship it).
EVERY person I know who
1) Has a company name and has developed and sold software
or 2) Demonstrated to Apple that he/she was a very competent
programmer with plans for a real product
has been granted certified developer status upon applying. Those who
have demonstrated competency but had no plans have not been accepted
(at least on the first try). Of course if you buy some hardware and
start putting a product together and then apply you will probably
get accepted with flying colors...
Chad
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Date: Tue, 08 May 84 17:05:48 EDT
From: Mike Russell <G.BROWNVM=UN502080@Berkeley>
Reply-To: G.BROWNVM=UN502080@BERKELEY
To: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: About color and other topics.
ReSent-date: Tue 8 May 84 16:41:47-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
In response to the messages about color, what I've heard was from John
Sculley (President of Apple). He held an informational meeting here
at Brown, and said that there will indeed be a Color-Mac eventually,
but to have made the original Mac color would have meant a release date
substantially later than when it was released. He said that eventually
there will indeed be a Color-Mac.
Atkinson's DEBUGGER:
It appears that Bill Atkinson left a debugger in MacPaint. It was
found in version 0.95, though it may be in all versions. It was found
twice by screwing around with the keyboard while in MacPaint, but
can't be found again. Anyone with any information about it? What I
know is this: While 'A' was selected (for text), and Command-Q was
chosen a new menu bar appeared with the title DEBUG, and if it was
pulled down, three selections appeared: HEAP, WORST STACK, and MONKEY
TRAP. Certain keyboard commands did things also. I am obviously
missing steps, in that it can't be reproduced. Any help would be
appreciated.
-Mike Russell (G.BROWNVM=UN502080@BERKELEY)
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Date: Tue 8 May 84 18:49:48-MDT
From: Randy Frank <FRANK@UTAH-20.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Toolbox equates for peons
To: STERNLIGHT@USC-ECL.ARPA, POURNE@MIT-MC.ARPA, REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA
cc: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "STERNLIGHT <STERNLIGHT@USC-ECL.ARPA>" of Tue 8 May 84 16:30:45-MDT
ReSent-date: Wed 9 May 84 09:04:25-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
This is totally in line with what Apple told us at the recent developers/
consortium meeting. They currently have over 1000 registered developers, and,
in order to be able to handle the crowd, have tentatively put a hold on
accepting new developers EXCEPT those w/ proven records in developing software.
This makes emminent sense to me: everyone and his aunt and uncle seems to want
to become a Mac developer. Apple has a choice in diluting the amount of
support given to developers by allowing an uncontrolled number of them, or can
attempt to qualify developers and provide a higher level of support. It seems
that if Apple is interested in seeing software out quickly for the Mac (which
certain people such as Mr. Pournelle seem to regularly complain isn't happening
fast enough), what they're doing is exactly on target. The last thing that
Apple needs to do is waste effort on every random who has a half assed idea for
Mac software.
The reality of this world is that, especially if the goal is getting software
out there quickly, that putting your eggs in the basket of established
developers will probably win. This may unfortunately mean that some good new
ideas get lost (or more probably delayed). However, the Mac will make it
commerically during the next 6 months largely on the basis of the popular
existing packages being ported to the Mac. From that perspective what Apple is
doing is totally correct.
-------
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Date: Wed, 9 May 1984 02:39 EDT
Message-ID: <LEVITT.12013870138.BABYL@MIT-OZ>
From: LEVITT%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
To: "Jerry E. Pournelle" <POURNE@MIT-MC>
Subject: Toolbox equates for peons
cc: info-mac%MIT-OZ@MIT-MC.ARPA
In-reply-to: Msg of 8 May 1984 03:27-EDT from Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE at MIT-MC>
ReSent-date: Wed 9 May 84 09:04:27-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
...wualified [sic] programmer types, have been rejected as
developers. ...exactly who HAS BEEN ACCEPTED as a Developer?
What are teh [s ic] criteria?
Yes, my sentiments. I joined this list a bit late, and I wondered if
there had been an ongoing poll. I know one designer from Ithaca who's
been certified for 1+ years, and one Palo Alto insider. But I know
various people who've been ignored or rejected. Is this temporary or
is it a policy?
West coast friends have claimed instant receipt of development tools,
even without a business plan. The Apple people seem to know that
widespread support for developers is crucial, so they encourage their
friends. But some proven east coast software companies have slipped
between the cracks, because they've never met an Apple person.
Is this just early disorganization, or is it understood that the cost
of providing documentation and updates widely is too high? That would
seem short sighted.
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Date: 9 May 1984 04:27-EDT
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Toolbox equates for peons
To: STERNLIGHT @ USC-ECL
cc: INFO-MAC @ SUMEX-AIM, REICH @ NYU-ACF1
In-reply-to: Msg of Tue 8 May 84 10:59:52-PDT from STERNLIGHT <STERNLIGHT at USC-ECL.ARPA>
ReSent-date: Wed 9 May 84 09:04:29-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
virulent cow pucky. I don't care a tinkers' damn for or against
Apple or any other company. I do care that claims have some
basis in reality; that claims to reverence by the hobbyist
commuknity be based on something substantial; that claims to
some special status have some basis.
If IBM had brought out a limited memory, small screen,
single drive system with proprietary operating system, charged
$150 for the system documents needed to do anything particularly
useful with it, helped people put out a bunch of $14.95 to
$19.95 books that contain almost no real information (but were
almost certainly supported by early copies of and access to the
machines prior to the rest of the world getting them): whould
IBM have been proclaimed Good Guys?
I completely agree: the Mac is fun. For a student with
$1000 it's probably a darned good buy for playing about with
doing homework, writing letters, etc. You will still need a
real calculator for your desk since the Mac one doesn't even
have elementary functions; you'll have to wait if you want to
load up basic and use that; you will have to find a printer if
you want to turn in the homework; but it's a nice buy.
For "the rest of us" who don't know much about cmputers
and have been waiting to get one until something very useful
and easy to use came out, I might have a different
recommendation at $3500 (by the time you get a useful
configuration).
It was not me who put forth the Macintosh as the
solution to all the world's computer problems. On the other
hand, i have a strong interest in seeing people happy with their
machines; and while I have heard a great deal of praise from
computer scientists who see the potential and like the DIRECTION
the machine seems to point to, and a lesser amount from new
users who are very pleased to poke around and find the fish and
the frog and other pictures and play with fonts, I do not hear
such hjappy noises from "the rest of us."
It was not me who claimed there would be enormous piles
of software by April.
As to the "Developer" status, I hardly care; but again
there were these exhortations given at shows and prior to the
release of the machine, and lots of talk about it. People were
encouraged to apply; later, they find, they should not have
been. Okay by me.
I would myself thnk that if Apple sold Macintoshes to
every random Ph.D. who wanted to get one as a developer (and who
had already persuaded the company he consults for to buy a Lisa
for his project) then, given that they do not lose money on the
discounted price anyway, they probably wouldn't go broke; and
they might get themselves a few people out there who can deliver
some software.
Availability of applications software is going to make
or break the machine; I cannot thnk that long delays in
processing "developer applications" followed by turndowns is
going to get the hobbyists and hackers writing up a storm.
Sure: Apple will lose a little money to people just
trying to get machines cheap; but it only takes one VisiCalc to
make a product successful. At the moment that applications
program has yet to be written.
Maybe, just maybe, something else will catch up faster
than Apple suspects.
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Date: Wed 9 May 84 14:28:23-PDT
From: Stuart Reges <REGES@SU-SCORE.ARPA>
Subject: ImageWriter for dissertations at Stanford?
To: info-mac@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Office: Margaret Jacks 210, 497-9798
ReSent-date: Wed 9 May 84 15:06:24-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I just came from an informational meeting put on by the Stanford people who
coordinate the Mac purchasing/support at Stanford. They announced that they
have been talking to the Graduate Program Office about ImageWriter output,
asking whether it would be acceptable for dissertations. The response was a
definitive maybe. The people at GPO did not say no, but they were not terribly
pleased with the output. It sounds like they will accept it if everything else
is perfect.
The people at GPO said they liked New York and Geneva 9 point fonts best. They
also liked New York 12 point font, but not as much. They haven't seen 10 point
output, though. It was also reported that a new ribbon does not produce best
results (characters look filled in). They suggest a medium-worn ribbon (after,
say, 100 pages of output).
-------
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Date: 9 May 1984 17:04:41-EDT
From: Duane.Williams at CMU-CS-IUS
Subject: Microsoft diskless!
ReSent-date: Wed 9 May 84 15:06:22-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
A local computer dealer told me that Microsoft Word and Chart are now
ready for release, but Microsoft can't ship them out because they can't
get disks to put them on! Apparently, Apple has cornered the market on
disks for the Mac.
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Date: Wed 9 May 84 22:06:45-EDT
From: Michael Rubin <RUBIN@COLUMBIA-20.ARPA>
Subject: getting inside the Mac....
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:31-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Tips on how to open the thing up:
Make sure the Torx T-15 screwdriver you get has an extra long shaft ( >= 5
inches, the usual ones are only 3-4 inches). This is needed to reach the two
screws way back under the handle. Alternatively you can get a Torx bit on a
1/4" drive socket and use an extender, or buy a normal Torx driver and cut the
handle down.
There is NO screw behind the Apple decal! That is a myth, like the one
about the left-hand-threaded light bulbs on New York subways. There are only
five screws: two near the bottom (marked with ! icon), one in the battery
compartment, and two under the handle. When you remove all five screws the
case still won't come off, because it's fitted very tightly. Pry it open with
something blunt, like a butter knife.
If you have the programmer's switch installed, it will tend to hang up on
the aluminum-foil shielding behind the I/O ports. Be careful.
On the video board (left side) there are adjustments for picture width and
height. If your Mac has very wide margins, you can make the picture bigger.
Just be sure you keep the aspect ratio square -- while doing the adjusting,
have MacPaint running with a large square drawn on the screen, and use a ruler.
Random observations on the interior design:
The frame is still designed for the 5.25" Twiggy drive -- they mounted the
3.5" drive on a Twiggy-sized bracket so it would reach the screw holes.
The case is nice heavy stuff, with a thick coating of conductive paint on
the inside, almost obscuring the signatures of all the designers (that's NOT a
myth!).
As all the phantom drawings suggest, the right side of the case is almost
empty. Enough room for a memory board or even a second disk drive. Probably
not enough for a Winchester, though.
-------
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Date: 9 May 1984 23:45:17-EDT
From: Avadis.Tevanian at CMU-CS-SPICE
Subject: MacTerminal bugs?
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:33-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I've been using MacTerminal (alpha minus something), and have a couple of
questions... First, previous mailings to this list have indicated support
for insert character. What is the escape sequence for this... the vt200
escape sequence of
<ESC> [ <n> @
almost works, but not quite.
Second, how is the file transfer stuff supposed to work? In fact, does it
work?
Third, there seems to be a very minor bug in the cursor control. If you do
something in a dialog box, then there is a chance that MacTerminal will
leave a stray cursor in its current position. As near as I can figure, you
pull down a menu when the cursor is either on or off, this stops it from
blinking. Then when you are done with the dialog box, the program is
confused as to whether the cursor is really on or off. Assuming that the
cursor is drawn using an XOR operation, it can potentially leave the
character inverted.
Avie
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Date: Thu 10 May 84 00:39:09-EDT
From: Michael Rubin <RUBIN@COLUMBIA-20.ARPA>
Subject: Speculations, ramblings and flame (long)
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:35-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Fairly easy software hack: a printer driver called by the vertical blanking
interrupt, so you could compute while printing? Only problem is it would
periodically have to read more data off disk, and I don't know if interrupt
routines are allowed to do that.
All the documents say the mouse is handled at such a low level that there's
just no way to move the cursor somewhere else or even confine it to a
particular area. Now, I can't really believe that, since the mouse just
outputs a pulse for every 1/90 inch of vertical or horizontal movement, and
anyhow the cursor is obviously confined to the limits of the screen. Perhaps
the cursor is a sprite and handled entirely by the video interface, but that
seems real unlikely. Now it may be that the mouse handler is entirely in ROM,
with no trap vector so it can be overridden like the Quickdraw routines.
However, the current mouse position is certainly not in ROM, so there has to be
an appropriate magical POKE that will do the job....?
Now that the Apple IIC ("Apple II, crushed") is out, will the FlatMac be
far behind? Well, it will have to wait for a 512x342 liquid-crystal display
because there's no way the Mac can output to a TV set or even a standard
monitor (it doesn't use ordinary video signals). Apple is having enough
trouble getting Sharp to make a 560x192 LCD for the IIC -- all they want to
build are 640x200 displays for IBM-PC's and clones. Figure about 18-24 months
for LCD production to catch up enough that odd sizes can be ordered. BTW, does
anybody know how thick the IIC's LCD is going to be? All the magazine photos
show a 3/4 front view with the unit tilted up, so the back might be anywhere
from flat to pyramid-shaped.
Since the Mac CPU board is just under 9x9 inches (and contains the entire
workings of the machine except for the power supply and video electronics), it
would fit in the same size case as the IIC. The disk drive is about 3/4"
thicker, so the case would have a bulge in back. However, the drive is also
narrower, which would leave about two inches of space behind the keyboard --
just right for a trackball, and perhaps a small nicad battery pack (that room
might be needed for a board to control the LCD).
Thoughts on the next machine in the Apple 32 line: The Mac is a neat
architecture except for lack of virtual memory, but it's I/O-bound. The floppy
is none too fast, and the IWM disk controller grabs the entire CPU during disk
operations, which is nasty if you want to do serious multitasking. A
Winchester can theoretically transfer data at 500Kbytes/sec, five times faster
than the serial port can theoretically receive it. Now if the disks were only
memory-mapped like the video, stealing half the memory cycles, they would be
capable of at least the same transfer rate as the video -- 22Kbytes every 1/60
second, or 1200 Kbytes/sec! Well, this could be done by turning off the screen
during disk I/O, but that would be even uglier than turning off interrupts.
Hmmm.... the video DMA uses only one fixed piece of memory, near the low end.
If the machine has at least two ranks of memory chips (256Kbytes of 64K chips,
or 1Mbyte of 256K chips), the memory bus could be cut in half during the memory
cycles reserved for DMA. Then while the video hardware was reading the low
bank of memory, the disks (or any other devices) could be reading and writing
their buffers in high memory. Some more complex disk controller than the bare
IWM would be needed, equivalent to an ordinary S-100 or Multibus DMA disk
controller. Perhaps the IWM could be operated by another custom chip or just
some PAL's and shift registers.
Another useful addition might be a smarter video controller, one that could
handle multiple bit planes and put them in arbitrary places on the screen
(basically giant sprites). This would be nice for windows, but great for
animation. Oops, if the bit planes are transparent and you have N of them at
one point on the screen, that means N memory accesses per pixel time. On the
other hand, most of them probably wouldn't be transparent, and even one extra
bit plane would help a lot.
--From the butane torch of:
Mike Rubin <Rubin@Columbia-20.ARPA>
-------
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Date: 10 May 1984 16:36:40-EDT
From: David.Anderson at CMU-CS-G
Subject: WYSIWYG?
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:46-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I'm rather perturbed by the fact that with both MacPaint and MacWrite, what
you see is often NOT what you get. Some examples:
MacPaint: Every 10th raster line is deleted when an image is printed
(always!). The reason for doing this is fairly straightforward -- the
printer prints only 72 dpi vertically, but 80 dpi horizontally, while the
screen is 80 dpi in both directions. In order to preserve the aspect ratio
and the size of the displayed image, every 10th raster line is just left out
when printing. Unfortunately, this is rather noticable: text gets
scrunched; shaded areas become streaked. If you don't believe me, simply
print the current window while in MacPaint and see what happens to the
parallel lines in the window's title bar. Possible fix: add an option that
prints images 72 dpi horizontally and vertically. This would make the
printed version larger than the displayed version, but at least they would
have the same appearance.
MacWrite: The problem is that right justified text often isn't. Some
characters seem to have too much padding on the right side ("y", "r"), so
that if a line ends with one of these characters, it isn't quite flush.
Much worse are "l"'s: a line ending with "illegal" or "all wall" will really
stick out past the right margin (when printed, not when displayed).
Another way get text to stick way out into the right margin is to end a line
with something in italics (or even better, bold italics). The slant will
slant right into tomorrow. When I went to the end of the line and tried to
add some extra spaces so that the text would get shoved left a bit it moved
FARTHER TO THE RIGHT!
I encountered these problems when working with a very narrow document (2 3/8
inches) in 9 point Geneva. I don't know if they occur in other fonts or
sizes, but I rather expect that some of them do.
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Date: Thursday, 10 May 1984 06:00:35 EDT
From: Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.arpa
Subject: Re: Toolbox equates for peons
Message-ID: <1984.5.10.8.15.4.Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa>
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:37-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Warning: long flame (~==========)
It's been interesting watching the discussion on the net. From what I can
see, the people posting on this net fall into three groups:
(a) Certified/registered developers who can afford to buy Lisas
and expensive documentation, and who generally defend every move
that Apple makes,
(b) Hackers, students, etc. (like myself) who see the potential
in the machine and will occasionally acknowledge the warts, but
do not have money to spend on Lisas to go with our Macs, and
(c) People who have used computers, but have not used computers
that have mice and windows (I suspect that Jerry Pournelle fell
into this group until his Lilith machine arrived).
As someone else noted earlier, one problem with the Macintosh is that it
tends to overload the mouse. The computer that I work on (a Perq running
Accent) tends to use the mouse only where it actually provides an advantage.
The editor, although non-programmable, has the usual set of Emacs-like
commands, given from the keyboard. In addition you can use the mouse to
move anywhere in the file quickly and to select blocks of text that will
be copied or deleted. If you absolutely hate mice, there are alternate
keyboard commands that accomplish the same effect (more slowly). I tend
to use the keyboard when entering new text and a combination of keyboard
and mouse commands when editing an existing file.
People in group (c), though, are likely to take a look at the Macintosh
and conclude that its faults are characteristic of all systems with mice
and bit-mapped displays. Without a standard of comparison, they are not
likely to see the machine's potential (software tends towards the lowest
common denominator and the Mac hardware provides a fairly high "standard"
with the exception of memory size).
Of course, the machine's potential is not likely to be realized unless the
people in group (b) can easily write software for it. Randy Frank is just
plain wrong when he says that the best way to get software for the machine
is to limit support to a few "proven developers." The history of the Apple
II family should prove otherwise. (Oh, by the way, wasn't the Apple II
designed in a garage and Visicalc written by a couple of college students?
How many Apple IIs were sold because of Visicalc? Why is the Apple II still
selling after all this time? No, it couldn't possibly be the thousands of
peons who have written software for it. . . Why is the TI 99/4 dead? Could
it possibly have something to do with TI's attempts to prevent hobbyists and
hackers from getting inside the machine, especially during the first part of
its life?)
Way to go, Jerry. I may disagree quite violently with you on many points,
but you are absolutely right in this case.
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Date: 10 May 1984 13:08:10-EDT
From: Peter.Su at CMU-CS-GANDALF
Subject: toolbox
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:42-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I have to agree with Jerry, Apple just is not doing a good job with Mac. I
mean they've released a computer with better hardware, a better OS, a better
user interface, the same BASIC, better graphics, better drives (though only
one), and more promised software than IBM ever had in its early
stages...man, they really screwed this up huh?
- Pete
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Date: Thu 10 May 84 13:00:34-PDT
From: Bjorn Lindskog <BJORN@WASHINGTON.ARPA>
Subject: MAC in Europe
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Thu 10 May 84 17:16:44-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Is the MAC dependent on the mains frequency in any way?
I want to bring mine over to Europe where 50 Hz is what comes
out of the plug. I guess that the real-time clock would be
something you often control by the mains. I'm not worried
about the video frame rate, since switchable terminals are
always run at 60 Hz rate anyway in order to minimze the flicker,
and that works fine.
I suppose that the voltage will be the problem, since the supply
is probably not switchable to 220 V. (At least it wasn't on
Apple II)
-- Bjorn
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Date: Thu 10 May 84 23:25:31-PDT
From: Chad Leland Mitchell <M.CHAD@SU-SIERRA.ARPA>
Subject: price
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 09:29:29-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
1-The categorization of people reading the BBoard is a real overgeneralizaton.
For example, I am a certified developer. I am also a graduate student and
cannot afford a Lisa. I have some things I am putting together with one other
person. Since they would need to be coded in assembly anyway (the Mac is the
slowest machine they could possibly run on) we will be using the assembler
when it arrives. Meanwhile we are doing the product design.
I have no other direct connection with Apple. I have friends who work there
and at HP, IBM, etc. Some of my school research is paid for by IBM. And I
have worked for Bell Labs. Almost three years ago I specified the personal
computer which I would be willing to buy and which would be interesting for
me to program. At the time there was nothing anywhere near the price range.
The Lisa was impressive and if it had been cheaper or earlier would have been
a hit. I know several people who bought IBM PC-XTs prior to January 24th who
wish they had waited for the $5500 Lisa 2/10 (much cheaper than about $7000 for
a "somewhat similarly equiped" PC XT).
The Macintosh is very close in all respects including price to the dream
machine that I specified. It is powerful enough to do interesting work and
to make an attempt at enogh user friendliness to call it an appliance. I am
looking forward to being able to program on top of an existing user interface
which is not upward compatible with punched cards.
I find it hard to believe that anyone could fall for the statement that if
IBM had come out with this machine we would all be complaining. If IBM had
come out with this machine, Apple would have lost totally. We would all be
shocked at something so innovative (IBM does innovative research, but it is
a real surprise when they come out with innovative products since they have a
stated policy of letting other companies do their market research for them).
Apple isn't perfect (and I admit that there may be people on this BBoard that
seem to doubt it). The Mac has some flaws. SOME of the software is coming
late. On the other hand, the software is no later than it has been for
everything else I have ever dealt with, it is far more powerful and complex
software than has been on personal computers before, and Second Quarter does
not mean April; it means before June 30. I know of no other machine in the
price range that comes close in almost any measure I care about. It is not a
Dorado, nor a Lilth, but then it does not cost $100,000 nor even $10,000.
Thus, you see, I am not a rich Lisa buyer, but I like the Mac a lot. It
brings computing to my parents (who bought one), my brother (who bought one),
my wife (who tells me we need two). None of them has ever written a program.
All of them had access to IBM PCs and used them for word processing and
accounting. None of them liked using the PC and they still had negative
feelings toward computers in general. They each spent a few hours using a
Macintosh and decided that they wanted one. They now feel confortable about
computers. Computers are acceptable topics of conversation. My wife is
planning to computerize her files, her recipes, our library, etc. She could
have done that before on other machines, but she never felt the desire to and
never really felt comfortable with a computer before, despite my prompting for
several years.
Macintosh does something which may seem terrible to some. It makes computing
fun. I admit that to some it may have been fun before Macintosh (myself
included), but then some people thought it was lots of fun to enter in long
sequences of machine code using front panel switches.
2-I have been asked by a friend (Robert Gardner) to forward this to the BBoard:
I have been trying to understand why some people are claiming
the Macintosh is overpriced. A look through the What's New
column of the most recent BYTE shows, for instance, the Zenith
Z-100 PC compatible with 128K bytes RAM, 2 serial ports,
graphics, and one DS/DD drive lists at $2800; the new PC
portable (if you can call 30 pounds portable) with 256K RAM and
1 DS/DD drive (but minus everything else IBM PC's are famous
for coming without) lists at $2800 also. These machines come
only with system software, don't include a mouse or graphics in
ROM, windowing, etc., and are bogged down by a barely adequate
CPU. A look through the mail-order discount houses also shows
the Mac is at least competitively priced.
So, I wonder, the Mac is overpriced compared to what? It's
more expensive than the Kaypro or the myriad of other 8-bit
machines, but certainly a 16/32 bit machine can't compare in
price with an 8-bit machine (unless we're comparing
price/performance). I think the answer is that the Mac is
overpriced compared to expectations, and perhaps Apple is
guilty of raising false expectations (I guess Scully is to
blame for shattering those expectations).
Finally, while we all would certainly like to see the Mac
cheaper (and everything else we purchase, too!), we need to
remember that this country is built on the profit motive.
According to Adam Smith, when demand exceeds supply prices
remain high. Currently, Apple is able to sell more Macintoshes
than it can build, so the price is justifyably high. Rumor has
it that it costs Apple around $600 to build a Mac (I assume
this includes parts and labor only), so we can surely expect
the price to fall once their production facilities are able to
keep up with demand. In the meantime, I don't think we can
begrudge Apple their well-deserved profits.
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Date: 11 May 1984 08:07 GMT
From: byard @ dca-eur
To: BJORN @ WASHINGTON
CC: info-mac @ sumex
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 09:29:33-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Re: MAC in Europe
Date: 11 May 1984 07:51:50 Z
Text: 50 Hz is no problem. We have used the American version of Mac
with a small transformer. The transformers are readily available
over here. A 220/110 switch would indeed complement the Mac travel
bag. Better yet, automatic voltage sensing and operation on various
power standards would make Mac more "international" and less vulnerable
to accidental smoke tests.
Larry
Byard @ DCA-EUR
Stuttgart
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Date: Fri 11 May 84 02:01:17-PDT
From: Richard Furuta <Furuta@WASHINGTON.ARPA>
Subject: How well is the Mac selling?
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
cc: Furuta@WASHINGTON.ARPA
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 09:29:36-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
TV news this evening reports that Apple has sold 70,000 MacIntoshes since
their introduction. The report is that this makes it the fastest selling
Personal Computer in history. Does anyone have any details on this---how
much of this is Consortium business, how long are waits these days for
Consortium and private business deliveries, at what kind of rate is Apple
now manufacturing them, etc.
Thanks for any information.
--Rick
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Date: Fri 11 May 84 09:38:55-EDT
From: Alan Crosswell <US.ALAN@CU20B>
Subject: Re: MAC in Europe
To: BJORN%WASHINGTON@COLUMBIA-20.ARPA
cc: info-mac%SUMEX-AIM@COLUMBIA-20.ARPA
In-Reply-To: Message from "Bjorn Lindskog <BJORN@WASHINGTON.ARPA>" of Thu 10 May 84 22:33:16-EDT
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 09:29:40-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
We asked Apple about that since many of our users asked the same
question at a Mac demo we put on here last month. Apple told us (and
it came out in print in the next Consortium newsletter that all that is
needed is a good quality voltage converter since 50 Hz is still within
the Mac's operating range. They don't use the line frequency for any
kind of clock.
Alan Crosswell
Columbia University Computer Center
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Date: Fri, 11 May 84 17:49 PDT
From: Cagan.PA@XEROX.ARPA
Subject: Re: Accurate Info for your column
In-reply-to: "ERIK@SRI-AI.ARPA's message of Thu, 3 May 84 18:52:41 PDT"
To: ERIK@SRI-AI.ARPA
cc: Pourne@MIT-MC.ARPA, Info-Mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 18:04:55-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I'm sending this message to the above distribution because I think that
some one in this group will be able to answer my question.
I will be purchasing a MacIntosh(with an Apple 1200 modem) in the near
future. I would like to know if there is, or will be (in the near
future), any way that an individual, with out a lot of money or hardware
, can use the MacIntosh to access the ARPA network or UUCP? Ideally, one
would be able to do this without using the resources of their employer
who may be part of the network. I feel that the potential that Mac has
for this application is one of it's great strengths.
I am a physical scientist, not a CS expert. So, I would appreciate
answers/solutions to my question that are understandable to one without
intimate knowledge of Mac's( or any computer's) inner workings. I would
also encourage individuals at Apple to respond. Of course, a ready made
software package (reasonably priced) would be the most palatable
solution for me.
Thanks for your help.
Myron Cagan
Xerox PARC
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Date: Fri, 11 May 1984 13:21 EDT
Message-ID: <WCATTEY.12014511182.BABYL@BBNF.ARPA>
From: "William D. Cattey" <WCATTEY@BBNF.ARPA>
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
cc: WCATTEY@BBNF.ARPA
Phase-Of-The-Moon: FQ+4D.0H.57M.22S.
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 18:04:50-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Subject: Macwrite pains
I am writing this note in the hopes that some problems I encountered
using Macwrite can either be fixed in the next release.
I have a document that is big enough to take 100 percent of the
Macwrite buffer space. I could deal with the following annoying
little problems by working around them :
There had to be *lots* of free space on my diskette before the
save imagee for the printer would fit. This meant a diskette with
Write, System, my document, and nothing else. The whole document
image does not necessarily have to be created in one huge file!
I had to save my file and bring in a fresh copy of Macwrite
every time I got the message "Almost out of memory cannot undo this
operation." while inserting text. Insert stops working when it
cannot undo typing. I expected tht later inserts would succeed after
acnowledging that they could not be able to be undone, or that
deleting characters from the buffer would help. This error also
seemed to affect the other commands in random ways.
Bill Coderre is right about headers and footers being buggy. They
have many problems:
They are awful to use. Their user interface should be
re-thought. I suggest that headers and footers have commands
to make them appear in the document, and seperate commands to grab
hold of them for editing. In my large document, most of my fiddling
time was spent waiting for Macwrite to re-paginate my document between
hides and shows of my headers and footers. (I hope to hide and show
less often when other bugs are fixed. see below)
Once the page number icon dissapeared from the footer command
completely. I have not been able to re-produce this problem. I got
around it by hiding the footer, saving the file, starting a new Macwrite
and re-creating the footer.
The following happened with a particular very large document:
After certain screen refresh opertions, such as using the
scroll boxes, or across a show/hide rulers command pair. The page
numbers I asked for in my footer would no longer appear on the screen
image. MacWrite had re-positioned the icon within the footer, and
decided that even though the page number was still in a visible region
of the footer, that the text should not appear. I got around this by
I had to hide and re-show my footer, and move the page number icon to
the second line of the footer from the first line of the footer (where
Macwrite decided it belonged).
The first time I printed out my document, the header text,
consisting of the date did not appear on the printed page. Only blank
lines.
I made a few revisions to the text (deleting a couple of
lines) and then neither the header nor the footer text appeared. I
got blank lines where dates and page numbers should be. I suspected
that asking for a big document with headers and footers was too much,
so I got rid of the header. I tried reading the document back in to a
virginal Macwrite. I tried several combinations of header text, lack
of header text, etc. I could get the page numbers to appear in the
screen image but never on the printed one!
After several hours of fiddling, I went back to a previously
saved copy of the file that predated the problem with insertion,
forgot about trying to get a header at all, (since it did not want to
print), and settled for page numbers that printed. I also deleted
MacPaint from the disk, because this time, although the document was
10 lines shorter, Write complained of insufficient space on the disk
for the printed output. Booting a new MacWrite did not help at all,
althought I expected that it would. I suspect two possible causes:
1) Perhaps header information stored in the document had gotten
corrupted, and only a previous version of the document with correct
footer information would solve the problem. I would have expected
header and footer information to be completely replacable with new
information from MacWrite rather than getting corrupted once and
forever.
2) If header and footer output is kept in seperate disk files (as I
*think* I saw mentioned here) perhaps the write failed due to lack of
space, but was not complained about. If there were 3 file outputs,
perhaps error checking is missing on one or two of them.
This is the first problem I have ever encountered in the Macintosh
that I could not quickly find a work around for. My shining image of
the Macintosh got tarnished. Interestingly, I did eventually find
work arounds for the problems, and it has taken me much longer to find
this sort of frustrating problem than with any other machine I have
used before. This speaks well of the overall useability and quality
of the system (The IBM PC was so frustrating to me that I felt like
throwing it out the window in the first 5 minutes of use!) Perhaps I
will elaborate on this topic in a subsequent submission to info-mac.
I hope this stuff is dealt with in the next release. When will *I* be
able to get the next release at my friendly Cambridge Massachusetts
Computer Store? Maybe I should become a Macintosh Developer???
William D. Cattey
wcattey@bbnf
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Date: Fri, 11 May 84 10:47:37 PDT
From: Kenneth Clark <clark@AEROSPACE>
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM
Subject: flame about color Macs...
ReSent-date: Fri 11 May 84 18:04:53-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I think that many of the people that wish for a color Mac are
perhaps not seeing things in perspective. The Mac is part of a
*system* concept, and is designed to integrate well with the
other components of that system. You could not just add a color
tube and hardware to Mac and have that be the end of it. Color
tubes draw more power, add a larger power supply. Bit planes
require more memory, and probably would require more horsepower
from the CPU to crunch that extra memory. Maybe all this extra
hardware/power would now require a fan, etc. Also, I think one of
Mac's great features is the ability to print out just exactly what
you see on the screen. So would we not need color printers also?
Maybe even a color laser printer for networking?
My point is that these enhancements are more appropriate to
a system that is in general of a higher class than Mac. Such
an enhanced system could easily end up two or three times as
expensive as the Mac system. Let's face it, the Mac is the
Volkswagen of the computer industry, which is a valid and necessary
niche for a manufacturer to fill. But putting a Rolls Royce engine
in a Volkswagen does not give you a cheap Rolls Royce, it gives
you a very expensive Volkswagen...
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Date: Friday, 11 May 1984 21:17:43 EDT
From: Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.arpa
Subject: Clarification
Message-ID: <1984.5.12.1.8.1.Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.arpa>
ReSent-date: Sat 12 May 84 08:33:57-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Since my message was somewhat ambiguous: I didn't mean to say that I agree
with Jerry that the Mac is a bad machine. I do think he has a valid point
that availability of applications software is going to make or break the Mac,
and that, as he puts it:
"TI told hobbyistz and hackers to drop dead, twice.
Long live the 99/4A"
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Date: 12 May 84 2:21:20-EDT (Sat)
From: Peterr%toronto.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.arpa
Subject: The number of Macs sold
ReSent-date: Sat 12 May 84 08:33:58-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
An item in the Toronto Globe and Mail for Friday May 11 (pg. B14)
confirms the 70,000 Macs-in-100-days figure (calling it 20,000 more
than expected) and compares it to the two-and-a-half years it took
to sell 50,000 Apple II's and the seven-and-a-half months to sell
the first 50,000 IBM PC's.
Other items of interest:
- Apple is "talking to" 250 software developers, 25 in Canada, and this
will grow to 350 and 35, respectively, by the end of the year.
- A "flurry" of software announcments is expected in June.
- The Mac has "also stimulated an unprecedented demand for Lisa".
- Xerox Canada will carry the Mac and Lisa in its retail stores.
p. rowley, U. Toronto
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Date: 12 May 1984 09:20:46-EDT
From: David.Anderson at CMU-CS-G
Subject: Re: How well is the Mac selling?
ReSent-date: Sat 12 May 84 08:34:01-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
CMU has received about 500 Macs to date. If that is average among the
24 Consortium schools, which I doubt, that makes 12,000 sales at $1000.
I'd be more inclined to put the figure at 5,000-6,000, but I don't know.
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Date: Sat, 12 May 84 12:05:18 EDT
From: Dave Farber <farber@udel-ee.arpa>
To: info-mac%sumex-aim.csnet@udel-ee.arpa
Subject: from Compuserve
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:04:37-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
10 REM Color Demonstration Program
20 REM
30 REM Copyright (c) 1984 by Wayne R. Loofbourrow
40 REM
50 REM Permission is granted for personal, non-commercial
60 REM reproduction of this program, provided that this
70 REM notice and all copyright notices are included in any copy.
80 REM
90 DEFINT A-Z
100 DIM CODE(100)
110 DIM PIC(257), ARRAY(256*3-1)
120 CLS : PRINT : PRINT : PRINT : PRINT : GOSUB 430
130 REM Load in Machine Language code.
140 I=0
150 READ W : IF W = -1 THEN 180
160 CODE(I)=W : I=I+1 : GOTO 150
170 REM Create pictures.
180 CLS : PRINT " Dk. Red" : PRINT : PRINT : PRINT " Brown"
190 GOSUB 430
200 I=0 : GOSUB 450
210 CLS : PRINT : PRINT "Lt. Green" : PRINT : PRINT " Brown"
220 GOSUB 430
230 GOSUB 450
240 CLS : PRINT : PRINT : PRINT " Dk. Blue" : PRINT
250 GOSUB 430
260 GOSUB 450
270 CLS : PRINT "Color Demonstration"
280 PRINT "Copyright ";CHR$(169);"1984 by Wayne R. Loofbourrow"
290 PRINT : PRINT "Instructions:"
300 PRINT TAB(5); "(1) Make sure brightness isn't too high."
310 PRINT TAB(5); "(2) Make sure room lights are on."
320 PRINT TAB(5); "(3) Start Program."
330 PRINT TAB(5); "(4) Stare at it a while at eye level,"
340 PRINT TAB(8); "adjusting brightness for best effect."
350 PRINT : PRINT "Press any key to begin."
360 PRINT "Press mouse button while mouse is in this window to exit."
370 IF MOUSE(0)<>0 THEN END
380 IF INKEY$="" THEN 370
390 CLS : DISPLAY#=VARPTR(CODE(0))
400 CALL DISPLAY#(VARPTR(ARRAY(0)))
410 IF MOUSE(0)=0 THEN 400
420 CLS : END
430 PRINT : PRINT "Initializing... Please Wait..."
440 RETURN
450 GET (0,0)-(63,63), PIC
460 FOR J=2 TO 257 : ARRAY(I)=PIC(J) : I=I+1 : NEXT J
470 RETURN
480 DATA &H206F, &H0004, &H6114, &H611E
490 DATA &H6110, &H610E, &H610C, &H612E
500 DATA &H6108, &H612A, &H6104, &H6126
510 DATA &H4E75, &H3038, &H016C, &HB078
520 DATA &H016C, &H67FA, &H4E75, &H227C
530 DATA &H0001, &HBF10, &H70FF, &H723F
540 DATA &H22C0, &H2280, &HD2FC, &H003C
550 DATA &H51C9, &HFFF6, &H4E75, &H227C
560 DATA &H0001, &HBF10, &H723F, &H22D8
570 DATA &H2298, &HD2FC, &H003C, &H51C9
580 DATA &HFFF6, &H4E75
590 DATA -1
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Date: Sat, 12 May 84 12:06:20 EDT
From: Dave Farber <farber@udel-ee.arpa>
To: info-mac%sumex-aim.csnet@udel-ee.arpa
Subject: previous program -- color.bas
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:04:41-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
The author claims under certain conditions you will see color
on the mac when you run this. (at least some will)
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Date: Sat 12 May 84 14:25:04-EDT
From: Wang Zeep <G.ZEEP%MIT-EECS@MIT-MC.ARPA>
Subject: Power
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:04:46-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
The first edition of MacWorld mentioned that Americans got 120 V supplies,
but that the European Macs would have 120/240 switching power supplies, so
that you only had to change the cord to change countries. Perhaps,
one can special order a Euro-MAc .
Wang "Wanna' buy a used PC?" Zeep
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Date: 12 May 84 14:32 EDT
From: Richard Reich <REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
To: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA, Furuta@WASHINGTON.ARPA
Subject: RE: How well is the Mac selling?
Message-ID: <1334FDFC2.006C004F.1984@ACF1.NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
In-Reply-To: <8405111821.AA27448@NYU.ARPA> ;
Message of 11-MAY-1984 14:30 from Richard Furuta <Furuta@WASHINGTON.ARPA>
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:04:52-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
The first place I saw the 70,000 sales figure was current Fortune.
I don't know what it means exactly, but 47th Street Photo in NYC now
has Macs IN STOCK at $2300 and they have MILLIONS of Apple modems also,
which I have seen nowhere else in NYC as yet.
-r
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Date: 14 May 1984 06:38-EDT
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE @ MIT-MC>
Subject: Toolbox equates for peons
To: INFO-MAC @ SUMEX-AIM, STERNLIGHT @ USC-ECL, REICH @ NYU-ACF1
In-reply-to: Msg of 9 May 1984 04:27-EDT from Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE>
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:05:07-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
[Last message on this 'subject'..... Ed.]
Let us set the record straight.
I know of three cases of applications for "Developer
Status." All were refused. I probably would have turned down
one of them myself. The other two seem highly qualified, and if
I were hoping to get software out for my system I'd have thought
them owrth encouraging.
I am pleased to hear from STERNLIGHT that there are
apparent exceptions to what I was persuaded was the rule. One
reason I ask questions on the net, or even make statements, is
to find things out; unlike Dvorak, who recently bragged in his
San Francisco Chronical column that "a columnist doesn't have to
check his facts" I tend to do some homework before I publish.
My interpretation of the facts remains my own business.
I don't apologize for being wrong; why should I? On this net,
one says what one thinks is true; one will get corrections soon
enough. Isn't taht its purpose? Without information sources,
how the devil will I know.
On the other hand, it remains a fact that Apple did
sufficient exhoration of hobbyists and hackers to make it a
reasonable expectation from all three I know of who applied
that they'd be accepted. There was also considerable hoop-lah
about how much software would be developed, adn when; it was,
after all, a major selling point.
My suspicion is that Apple originally meant to grant
"Developer" status to a far larger number of people, then found
sales much better than expected. They didn't need so many
discounted machines sold to get them far out on the learning
curve for manufacture, so they could charge full price for more
of them than they'd thought. They chose to do that. This is
not an unreasonable decision. Most corporations probably would
make the same decision.
Whether it was a WISE decision is another matter.
I repeat: certainly Apple would lose little by granting
developer status to every Ph.D. gainfully employed in the
computer business who applies. They would lose little by
granting Developer status to any hacker with a good track
record, even if the track record consisted of work on programs
in other people's shops rather than on their own. Sure: they'd
lose, say, 1000 full price sales, at most. That's a million
dollars. No small sum. But if within that thousand there was
one VisiCalc...
True: the VisiCalc people had no special developer
status. no one had. But the Apple II was a prety open machine,
much easier to understand thd interface to. Is the Macintosh
that simple? Apparently not, else there would already be some
of that promised flood.
I don't know where sternlight gets the notion that I
dislike Apple. I don't much care what company competes with IBM
so long as somebody does it successfully. I'm a little weary of
the breathless hype, and VERY weary of the Apple-polished
corporate image of the Good Guys who are somehow differently
motivated, but I can make that statement about other companies I
know of.
If the Mac had 500K of memory and a second drive, then
it would be worth $2500 and more; alternatively, it's worth a
fair bit less in its present state. That, of course, is merely
an opinion, based on considerable experience with a number of
machines (including a Mac).
Now: if Sternlight's angry little tirade is answered,
then I too am willing to pass on to another subject. I alrady
was; that's why I "changed the subject" after he pointed out
that I was mistaken in one point of information. I hadn't know
that I was supposed to acknowledge that I'd lost some kind of
debating point; however, I'm perfectly willing to make that
acknowledgement if it makes him feel better.
Last point: does anyone know WHY it is taking so long to
write useful applications programs for the Mac? One story we
heard: Apple intended to do it all in house. They had not
intended even Microsoft basic. Then, very late last year, they
discovered that they were not going to be producing any useful
software (other than the ability to produce 9 page illuminated
manuscripts) before the Mac was to be releeased. There was
panic calls, including to Microsoft; which is why the Microsoft
Basic implementation is such a kludge (14 K workspace!).
Anyone know whether or not that's true?
Next rumour: AT&T will sell Macs with 256K chips. I
keep hearing that. It makes little sense to me. I have no
confirmations, only multiple sources. Anyone know?
The main question remains: if it's so easy to interface
with the Mac and write software for it, why has none appeared?
Is it being held for COMDEX; or is it harder to write than was
supposed?
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id AA25534; Mon, 14 May 84 09:53:52 cdt
Date: Mon, 14 May 84 09:45:30 CDT
From: Andrew W. Donoho <awd@ut-ngp.ARPA>
To: info-mac@sumex-aim.ARPA
Subject: Protocol for SendOne/GetFile???
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:05:09-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Does anyone in netland know the protocol for the SendOne/GetFile transfer
programs that Apple includes in its software supplement to the Mac?
We haven't been able to find any documentation on this in Inside Macintosh.
Any information would be greatly appreciated. If I receive some useful
information I will repost it to the net.
Thanks in Advance
Andrew W. Donoho
awd@ut-ngp
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Date: 14 May 1984 13:13:00-EDT
From: Kevin.Dowling at CMU-RI-ROVER
Subject: Printer
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:05:11-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
The May issue of BYTE talks about the new addition to the Apple line:
The Apple IIc. In addition, on page 282, they mention a new printer
called The Scribe. The Scribe is a plain-paper thermal transfer printer
with color capabilities (no price announced but expected to be in the $300
range) The Scribe, it is said, will print on virtually any paper surface
and projection transparencies. It is designed as a printer for the
entire product line including Mac's and Lisa's.
The BYTE article
goes on to say that output appeared to exceed the Imagewriter in quality.
It operates at 80cps (draft mode) or 50cps (letter mode)
Dot resolution is 160 horizontal x 144 vertical per inch or 23040 dots/sq in.
Color printing is done by a color ribbon with a spectrum of colors arranged
in bands on the ribbon. About $5 for a 80,000 character black ribbon and
about $8 for color. Any estimates on how much text is 80,000 chars?
The printhead is a proprietary device that consists of 24 resistance elements
that are arranged in a vertical column. While printing, the head is
pressed against a polyester ribbon with carbon filled paraffin ink on it.
The resistance elements are pulsed briefly, heating them and melt the
ink to deposit it on the paper. The temperature range of the resistance
element goes from 300 degrees F to 95 degrees F in several microseconds.
nivek
ARPANET: nivek@cmu-ri-rover
USmail : Kevin Dowling
Robotics Institute
Pgh, PA 15213
Bell : (412) 578-8830
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Date: Mon 14 May 84 10:09:50-PDT
From: Chad Leland Mitchell <M.CHAD@SU-SIERRA.ARPA>
Subject: price
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:05:14-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
Individually, a few of Jerry's points make some sense, but taken together I
am not sure. For example:
-Apple may be going for market share. I am sure that they are based on
advertizing strategies, but we will not really know as long as they can sell
every Mac they can make at the current price. If they drop the price as
production catches up to sales THEN we will know they are going for market
share. Until then we do not know.
-To be useful by Jerry's definition, a Mac needs a second drive and a printer
which does not bring the price to $4000. First he complained that the second
drive was not available. Is he now complaining that it is available?
-Jerry's main concern about software is that there is not enough software
right now. I cannot understand how changing the certified developer program
would help with that. If Apple approved everyone who applied from here on
they would still contribute little software until soemtime next year.
-If I see a BYTE article which says that there are only 7 or 9 (or however many
there are right now) software packages currently available for the Mac, I hope
it also reads "(as of May 7)" or something like that. The "Update" on the
Macintosh and Lisa 2 in the current BYTE seems to have been written right after
the January 24th meeting. With such a lag time, any claim to little software
is likely to be very out of date.
-I am not too worried that no software will arrive. I might be if it were all
still in design or development phases, but much of it is in Beta test and very
little that makes it to beta test does not really ship.
-We all want the software to be well tested and really custimized to take
advantage of the Mac. We complain about the MS-Basic which seems to be a quick
port. We also want all of that software right now. I would rather wait till
June for well tested software than get something now that works as well as some
of the early software on some other machines. The ONLY editor that I am aware
of for the IBM-PC when it was announced was EDLIN which as you might guess is
a line editor.
I do have a possible correction to make. Rumors still seem to indicate that
in the early days of the Certified Developer program there was a 90% acceptance
rate. When they reached about 1000 certified developers (far more than
anticipated) they seem to have decided to change that acceptance rate
significantly (this is just a rumor to me, but others seem to support this).
Perhaps when their staff figures out how to support the volume of developers
already accepted they will change the acceptance rate again. Thus I stand
corrected. Back when they told me that anyone with the right qualifications
would be accepted that was true, but it may no longer be true.
Chad
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Date: Mon, 14 May 84 13:27:29 EDT
From: Dave Farber <farber@udel-ee.arpa>
To: info-mac%sumex-aim.csnet@udel-ee.arpa
Subject: Query on rs232/422 mac connectors
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:05:16-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
We are getting about 2.5 volts out of our mac on pin 7. Is that
normal? I believe the specs for rs232 say > 3 volts
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Date: 12 May 84 14:42 EDT
From: Richard Reich <REICH@NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
To: WCATTEY@BBNF.ARPA
Cc: INFO-MAC@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
Message-ID: <13350C49C.0191005D.1984@ACF1.NYU-ACF1.ARPA>
In-Reply-To: <WCATTEY.12014511182.BABYL@BBNF.ARPA> ;
Message of 11-MAY-1984 21:14 from "William D. Cattey" <WCATTEY@BBNF.ARPA>
ReSent-date: Mon 14 May 84 13:04:54-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: info-mac: ;
I got the new stuff (Finder, MacWrite, DiskCopy) from my store on a
completely informal ("I can't really tell you where I got it...") basis.
All seems well EXCEPT MacForth craps out at initiation using the new
system folder. BASIC seems to work ok, and I haven't checked Multiplan yet.
-r
ps... The new "About the Finder" is pretty cute.
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