djm@nmtvax.UUCP (09/10/84)
[Brrrzrip...eat that, bug! Oh, you want some mustard, too? Oh well.] Here are the responses to date that I've gotten on my query about the Manx Aztec C compiler for the Apple. To those that sent me responses and didn't get a thank you note, it's due to some strangenesses in the local database on how to get from here to there. Please consider this a thank you. Dieter Muller ========================================================================== From: Doug Gwyn (VLD/VMB) <unm-cvax!cmcl2!seismo!hao!hplabs!ucbvax!gwyn@Brl-Vld.ARPA> The current Aztec C for the Apple II from Manx supports DOS 3.3, not ProDOS. The ProDOS version is held up by the Macintosh C project, which is scheduled for September delivery. Aztec C can be asked to generate either native 6502 machine code or interpreted code. The interpreted code tends to be smaller, the machine code faster. They can be mixed in the same program binary, so one can make appropriate space/time tradeoffs. There is also support for overlays, and a command language interpreter (mini-shell) that programs can be made to access for some library routines, to save space. The manual is pretty good (the only noteworthy omission is interpreted code specs), and the language and supplied library are a fairly full implementation of C. Sources are included for the library (except interpreter) and many of the utilities (screen editor, archiver, device drivers, but NOT compiler/assembler/loader/shell). My only real complaint is that I wish they would hurry up with the ProDOS version, as I am getting tired of compiling on DOS floppies then moving my binaries to the ProFile. =============================================================================== From: unm-cvax!cmcl2!seismo!hao!hplabs!ucbvax!FRIEDMAN@RU-BLUE.ARPA The Manx C compiler compiles to either 6502 or M-code with a size vs speed tradeoff. It also contains assemblers for both 6502 and M-code. Currently the ProDos version is not available but it will be out "real soon now". The programs can be run under the Shell or standalone. If they are not run under the shell, the 80 column support becomes minimal. The shell replaces the comand processer of DOS (and maybe the file manager?) and comtains the command cp, cat and ls. It also contains IO redirections (cat test > pr:). It come on 6 disk. They contains the linker, compilers, assemblers, an editor (VED) which is bad but usable, libraries, and sources to the libraries (floating point and I/O, for 6502 and M-code, with and without the shell. 6 total.) and the editor in C. It can use standard DOS files and standard normal files (with high bit off and cr/lf at end of line). The shell requires STANDARD DOS so it will not even run with a Corvus hard drive. The manual explains the interfacing to assembly language and adding device drivers so you can add your own functions etc. -Gadi ============================================================================= Aztec C (from Manx Software) for the Apple has all the features of C except for bit fields. Two versions of the compiler are included: a p-code version and a native code version. Both compilers are rather slow but produce fast code. Also included is a vi-like screen editor, libraries, a simple shell and a few tools. Source code (in C) for most of these is included. I am not too familiar with the CP/M version, but I think the compiler would be identical (except for funning faster on a z80). Dave Newkirk, ihnp4!ihuxl!dcn ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ We use the DOS version of the MANX compiler on our Apples here at the Ergonomics Lab. The package comes with two compilers: a native code compiler and a pseudo-code compiler. The first sacrifices space for speed while the second generates less code but demands that an interpreter be present in memory. The license agreement allows the production of standalone binaries for sale without royalties to be paid to MANX. The libraries conform to stdio, but there are a few routines added to ensure compatability with DOS's notion of what a newline is. There is no graphics library (we had to write one ourselves). The one complaint which everybody makes about this compiler is its speed (or rather the lack of it). It is slow. Make that s..l..o..w. A 500 line program can take up to 20 minutes to compile and link. Nevertheless, we are satisfied with it and have no other serious complaints. Les Gondor, U of Toronto CSRG {cornell,ihnp4,allegra,uw-beaver,decvax!utzoo}!utcsrgv!lgondor CSNET: lgondor@toronto ARPA: lgondor%Toronto@CSNet-Relay "Strange women lying in ponds and distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have purchased the Manx C65 package about a month ago. To date I have been impressed with its quality and functionality. It *does* produce true 6502 machine code, and through some careful optimization, came be made to run quite fast. As an exampl, I am working on a graphics package now, written in C. The line drawing algorithm is comparable in speed to the routines in the Apple rom. It supports a pseudo UNIX shell environment with built in ls, cat, mv, cp, etc commands. The full stdio library is supplied *with source*. All the hooks are there into DOS3.3 for file IO including a subroutine for RWTS in addition to the lock, unlock, catalog, read, write, etc. It's the best $200 you can spend if you are a real 'C' fan like me. Lou Haskell - AT&T- Bell Labs - Columbus ...cbosg!cbscc!ljh -- Dieter Muller aka Rube Goldberg II (djm@nmtvax)