eve@ssc-bee.UUCP (Michael Eve) (09/28/84)
It appears that the most important issues, and reasonable solutions, have been obscured by the mass of vague accusations and spleen-venting flames (including by own). I will summarize what I feel are critical: 1) Apple Computer misrepresented the 128k machine as being a reasonable memory configuration for which there would soon be large quantities of software. 2) Apple Computer knew that the 128k machines would be made obsolete by the 512k machines without an expensive upgrade. 3) Owners gripes about depreciation of their machines are unreasonable. The drop in price was anticipated by many. However, owners complaints about obsolence are well founded. To have a machine only 6 months old be shunted away from the main stream of new software is unreasonable. 4) Apple has announced plans to continue producing 128k Macs (at least until they can get enough 256k rams to keep production going). Items 1 and 2 are particularly damning, and sufficient grounds to expect Apple to lose a few bucks retrofitting 128k Macs. Retrofit with what? Not with 512k boards, at least not for free (maybe for the cost of the chips alone). I propose Apple redesign the memory board the way they should have designed it in the beginning. A simple board with 16 sockets and a personality module (or jumpers) to allow the use of 64k or 256k rams (or even 1 meg rams, if compatible). Former Apple ][ owners will recognize the design approach. Apple did just this on the early mother boards. Three rows of 8 sockets each were controlled by three personality modules. Each row could accept either 4k or 16k chips. Talk about expandibility! From the early 4k machines to the 64k ][+ is a factor of 16 -- this without a costly trip to the dealer or replacing a board. If the Mac were similary expandable, original owners could go from 128k to 2 Meg. This new board should be given to all 128k owners, gratis, and, screw the stockholders (I myself am one, and I do not own a Mac-- I'm not that naive). All new 128k machines should be supplied with this new board as standard equipment. This will allow those on limited budgets to experience the Mac environment and upgrade when chip prices fall. Such a simple thing, such a reasonable thing, but who ever heard of an upgradeable bar of soap? -- Mike Eve Boeing Aerospace, Seattle ...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!eve
marc@wlcrjs.UUCP (Marc Lavine) (10/05/84)
> I propose Apple redesign the memory board the way they should have > designed it in the beginning. A simple board with 16 sockets and a > personality module (or jumpers) to allow the use of 64k or 256k rams (or > even 1 meg rams, if compatible). From what I have heard and read, there is NO difference between the 128K boards and the 512K boards except for the type of RAM chips installed. In other words, the boards were designed to take either type of chip from the beginning (or sometime around then). Apple wanted the Mac to be a closed system in terms of hardware, and that appears to be their reasoning in not using sockets for the RAM chips. Marc Lavine -- Marc Lavine ...ihnp4!wlcrjs!marc
ward@hao.UUCP (10/08/84)
> From what I have heard and read, there is NO difference between the 128K > boards and the 512K boards except for the type of RAM chips installed. > In other words, the boards were designed to take either type of chip from > the beginning (or sometime around then). Apple now says that there were four versions of the 128K board made, and the latest version is identical to the 512K board. Hardly "from the begining". Also, some expensive and difficult to use de-soldering equipment is needed to remove the old chips. -- Michael Ward, NCAR/SCD UUCP: {hplabs,nbires,brl-bmd,seismo,menlo70,stcvax}!hao!ward ARPA: hplabs!hao!sa!ward@Berkeley BELL: 303-497-1252 USPS: POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307
BILLW@sri-kl.ARPA (10/08/84)
1) Apple Computer misrepresented the 128k machine as being a reasonable memory configuration for which there would soon be large quantities of software. 2) Apple Computer knew that the 128k machines would be made obsolete by the 512k machines without an expensive upgrade. Are these statments true? Is a 128K Mac really worthless? Most of the complaints that I have seen on this list, and on INFO-MAC, having to do with memory space limitaions concern things like BASIC, various compilers, and other DEVELOPMENT tools. The MAC was never intended to be a development machine - it was designed for users. How many of the applications available or planned are severly handicapped by having only 128K? Do not include applications written in a compiler forced to fit in the same memory - most development these days is done on a larger computer. It is neither unreasonable nor uncommon for a "development" system to cost much more than a "user" system. I do not think that the requirement of a LISA or a VAX is a serious flaw - Apple is currently trying to get the MAJOR applications running on the apple - and the companies making them can easilly aford a seperate development system. Of course there are all of those cosortium people who wanted to use the MAC for teaching programming, and that might be difficult without the extra memory - good compilers will come in time, though - compare Turbo Pascal for the IBMPC to the Pascal from IBM... BillW PS: Everybody should go out and read a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" By Ayn Rand.... $$
ward@hao.UUCP (Mike Ward) (10/09/84)
> How many > of the applications available or planned are severly handicapped by > having only 128K? Macwrite Macpaint Multiplan Overvue The Lotus Product Word Draw Project The Font Editor These are the ones that come right to mind. I'm sure there are others. > PS: Everybody should go out and read a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" > By Ayn Rand.... $$ Oh, Lord, will we always have sophomores to plague us? -- Michael Ward, NCAR/SCD UUCP: {hplabs,nbires,brl-bmd,seismo,menlo70,stcvax}!hao!ward ARPA: hplabs!hao!sa!ward@Berkeley BELL: 303-497-1252 USPS: POB 3000, Boulder, CO 80307