chriss@midas.UUCP (Chris Shirkoff) (09/05/85)
HELP! I have an Apple Super Serial card that I'm trying to use with an external modem. My system consists of a //e with extended 80-column card, the super serial card, and a parallel printer interface. When I put the Super Serial into dumb terminal mode, two things happen: 1. With nothing connected to the D25 connector, and local echo enabled, all appears well in 40-column mode. But if the Super serial is put into dumb tty mode using 80-col. mode, the cursor always remains in column 2 of the current active line. Aside from this, all else seems normal -- but with no cable attached. 2. After entering dumb tty mode (and verifying it using local echo), I connected the modem (VADIC 34xx, VA212, US Robotics -- doesn't make any difference) using a "standard" cable. I've been using said cable with my dumb terminal and no problems, so I don't suspect the cable -- I can loop back TXD to RXD without connecting DSR or DTR and actually echo to the screen of the //e. But connect a modem (who will assert DSR), and the Apple is now a very dumb terminal! It does assert DTR, but will not respond to keyboard input -- my last test involved using the modems loopback capability, so anything sent should have been echoed. Questions: 1. Has anyone seen this problem? 2. Has anyone used a Super Serial successfully with a //e? 3. Is DSR killing me? If so, WHY? So far all I've gotten from my dealer is a $25 bill for "Warrantee service -- No problem found"(!), and "it's probably your configuration". Since my box was purchased as a complete system, I've got to thinking -- Do they run diagnostics on these things? Doesn't "configured for use with modem" mean configured for use with a modem? PLEASE, if you have any solid information -- send it my way! At the moment I suspect that I'm going to run into the "Well, we found a problem -- but you're 2 days out of warrantee" syndrome. Grrrr. (Sorry about the editorial comments, but if net-people won't listen, who will?) -- --------------------------------------- UUCP: tektronix!midas!chriss USMAIL: Chris Shirkoff Tektronix, Inc., PO Box 4600 MS 94-442 Beaverton, Oregon 97075
rbt@sftig.UUCP (R.Thomas) (09/09/85)
> > HELP! I have an Apple Super Serial card that I'm trying to use with an > external modem. My system consists of a //e with extended 80-column > card, the super serial card, and a parallel printer interface. > > When I put the Super Serial into dumb terminal mode, two things happen: > > 1. With nothing connected to the D25 connector, and local echo enabled, > all appears well in 40-column mode. But if the Super serial is put into > dumb tty mode using 80-col. mode, the cursor always remains in column 2 > of the current active line. Aside from this, all else seems normal -- > but with no cable attached. > Your problem #1, dumb terminal mode on the SSC in 80 col mode leaving the cursor in col 2 all the time is a 'known problem' with no fix. I called Apple tech support in the Boston area about a year ago (When they were still answering the phone if you had patience enough to get thru.) and asked them about it, and they said it was a problem in the SSC/80Col firmware, and a firmware fix might be available sometime in the future, but dont hold my breath. I have not tried the IIe upgrade kit (sells for 70 dollars and makes the IIe firmware compatible with the IIc.) You might try that and see if it fixes the problem. However, You will find that the dumb terminal mode in the SSC firmware is less than perfectly satisfactory even in 40 column mode (Where it works, more or less, as the designers intended it to.) There are no cursor addressing features. But worst of all, it will not operate at 1200 baud. It drops characters. The reason is that the firmware that does screen scrolling does not poll the SSC for input (how could it, it doesnt even know you have an SSC, let alone what slot it is in.) and it takes longer than one character time at 1200 baud to scroll a 24 line screen. So you get dropped characters. It works ok at 300 baud, but who wants a 300 baud 40 column terminal, with no cursor addressing? The IIe enhancement kit is supposed to speed up the scrolling firmware enough so it does not drop characters at 1200 baud anymore (Part of that is that the kit includes a 65C02 processor, which is a little faster than the 6502 that comes standard with the IIe. And part of it is that they rewrote the scrolling part of the firmware to make it faster.) But it still doesnt do cursor addressing. My advice to you is to get a copy of a good terminal emulator program. They all do their own scrolling, so they dont have the character dropping problem. AE-Pro is highly recommended by many folks. (I dont use it myself, because I have a beta test version of a program written by Ken Adelman at Cal Tech, which will be available public domain in the near future, which meets my needs very well, and AE-Pro costs about 90 dollars -- less than that mail-order, I think.) > 2. After entering dumb tty mode (and verifying it using local echo), I > connected the modem (VADIC 34xx, VA212, US Robotics -- doesn't make any > difference) using a "standard" cable. I've been using said cable with > my dumb terminal and no problems, so I don't suspect the cable -- I can > loop back TXD to RXD without connecting DSR or DTR and actually echo to > the screen of the //e. But connect a modem (who will assert DSR), and > the Apple is now a very dumb terminal! It does assert DTR, but will not > respond to keyboard input -- my last test involved using the modems > loopback capability, so anything sent should have been echoed. > Regarding your problem 2, if you dont have a breakout box, get one. Once you have one, read the manuals that come with *both* the modem and the SSC *very* carefully to figure out what signals they need, and when they need them, in the hand-shaking process. A breakout box that shows all three states of a line (High, Low, and Floating) is much more useful than one that shows just two states (high and not-high). The SSC comes with an excellent manual, complete with listings of the firmware and circuit diagrams. (The *old* Apple Inc approach to the world. *Sigh* Gone for ever!) Make sure you have the switches set correctly on the SSC, and make sure you have the 'null-modem' block set the right way. Remember that digital loop-back will appear to work, even if you have the null modem block in wrong, because digital loop back is supposed to connect TXD to RXD. With the null modem block in wrong, it connects RXD to TXD, which has the same effect as before. Analog loop back, on the other hand, will not work if you have the null modem block in backwards. The SSC manual is very clear on this subject. There are a bunch of switches on the SSC, and they all must be set right for it to work. Pay particular attention to things like 'bits/character' and 'number of stop bits'. The only way to get them right is to experiment, unfortunately. But they can be frustrating, because they *almost* dont matter. You will get occasional (or frequent -- depending on how far out of line you have the switches) garbage being sent if you have them wrong. Beyond that, I have no suggestions. > Questions: > > 1. Has anyone seen this problem? Yes, I fought with the same problems myself about a year ago. > 2. Has anyone used a Super Serial successfully with a //e? Yes, I was finally successful. > 3. Is DSR killing me? If so, WHY? I don't think so. > > So far all I've gotten from my dealer is a $25 bill for "Warrantee > service -- No problem found"(!), and "it's probably your configuration". What did you expect from a dealer? Most of them dont know as much about computers as the average 12 year old. Their expertise is in retail sales, if they have any at all. > Since my box was purchased as a complete system, I've got to thinking -- > Do they run diagnostics on these things? Doesn't "configured for use > with modem" mean configured for use with a modem? Diagnostics? You gotta be kidding! (Sorry, I wax cynical.) Actually, though, if you bought a 'complete system' and have your specifications in writing, you might consider telling the dealer to take it back unless he can make it work to your written specs. That usually gets their attention. > > PLEASE, if you have any solid information -- send it my way! At the > moment I suspect that I'm going to run into the "Well, we found a > problem -- but you're 2 days out of warrantee" syndrome. Grrrr. > (Sorry about the editorial comments, but if net-people won't listen, > who will?) > > > -- > > --------------------------------------- > UUCP: tektronix!midas!chriss > USMAIL: Chris Shirkoff > Tektronix, Inc., > PO Box 4600 MS 94-442 > Beaverton, Oregon 97075 Rick Thomas ihnp4!attunix!rbt
poxon@stolaf.UUCP (Walter D. Poxon) (09/18/85)
> > HELP! I have an Apple Super Serial card that I'm trying to use with an > external modem. My system consists of a //e with extended 80-column > card, the super serial card, and a parallel printer interface. > > When I put the Super Serial into dumb terminal mode, two things happen: > > 1. With nothing connected to the D25 connector, and local echo enabled, > all appears well in 40-column mode. But if the Super serial is put into > dumb tty mode using 80-col. mode, the cursor always remains in column 2 > of the current active line. Aside from this, all else seems normal -- > but with no cable attached. > > 2. After entering dumb tty mode (and verifying it using local echo), I > connected the modem (VADIC 34xx, VA212, US Robotics -- doesn't make any > difference) using a "standard" cable. I've been using said cable with > my dumb terminal and no problems, so I don't suspect the cable -- I can > loop back TXD to RXD without connecting DSR or DTR and actually echo to > the screen of the //e. But connect a modem (who will assert DSR), and > the Apple is now a very dumb terminal! It does assert DTR, but will not > respond to keyboard input -- my last test involved using the modems > loopback capability, so anything sent should have been echoed. > > Questions: > > 1. Has anyone seen this problem? > 2. Has anyone used a Super Serial successfully with a //e? > 3. Is DSR killing me? If so, WHY? > > So far all I've gotten from my dealer is a $25 bill for "Warrantee > service -- No problem found"(!), and "it's probably your configuration". > Since my box was purchased as a complete system, I've got to thinking -- > Do they run diagnostics on these things? Doesn't "configured for use > with modem" mean configured for use with a modem? > > PLEASE, if you have any solid information -- send it my way! At the > moment I suspect that I'm going to run into the "Well, we found a > problem -- but you're 2 days out of warrantee" syndrome. Grrrr. > (Sorry about the editorial comments, but if net-people won't listen, > who will?) > > > -- > > --------------------------------------- > UUCP: tektronix!midas!chriss > USMAIL: Chris Shirkoff > Tektronix, Inc., > PO Box 4600 MS 94-442 > Beaverton, Oregon 97075 *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** I have an Apple //e with a Super Serial card and have found a way to use a Prometheus Promodem at 1200 baud without any characters dropping. The problem wasn't the slow firmware in the card, but rather the way the card didn't work with my 80col card. The solution was to use a Microsoft Premium Softcard //e (Z80 processor, 64k addit. memory and an 80 col card all on one huge board) as my video interface. For reasons unknown to me, this configuration works perfectly! Feel free to mail me with any questions regarding dip switch settings, cables, modem configs. or anything... I've spent two years trying to get to this point and I might be able to help. Keep trying, it feels great when 120cps fly across your Apple screen! Walter Poxon ihnp4!stolaf!odin