heff@bsdpkh.UUCP (Paul K Heffner) (03/28/86)
I've been reading the discussion of Apple ][ 80-column video
boards with interest and would like to inject my two cents worth.
I bought my ][+ in '78 back when you had a choice between the
plain ][ (integer basic only) or ][+ (Applesoft in rom!!) In the
years since, the 80-col issue has never been resolved in a way
I would consider satisfactory. Practically anybody who is used to
working with VDT terminals will probably become disgusted with the
unacceptably slow response of the cards available. The situation
seems to be just as bad on the ][e (and to me this is inexcusable
considering the 80-vid on the ][e is completely memory mapped and
should be extermely fast!!).
Probably the best example of how dimly the Apple ]['s video
is regarded is the fact that when Digital Research (the folks who
market CP/M) decided to release their own Z-80 board to run CP/M
on the apple they put independent video circuitry right on their
card in order to avoid having to tangle with the ]['s snail-vid.
O.K. I've done enough bitching, so what's my solution? Well,
it really depends on how you use your computer. After buying and
dumping several 80-col boards over the years, I found the most
satisfactory solution is to pop a communications serial board in
slot 3 and use an external terminal. I found an old Perkin-Elmer
Owl 1200 terminal for next to nothing and run it at 9600 baud.
As I do most of my work with the Apple Pascal system or CP/M
(both of which work GREAT with terminals) I have no problem with
this set up. It even allows me to keep my color monitor on the
normal apple video output with no interference whatsoever! I can
write turtlegraphics routines over on the terminal and watch the
graphics results on the apple vid and debugging (or whatever) info
simultaneously on the term.
The only problem is Applesoft, which doesn't easily talk to
terminals without special coding. Most current 80-column boards
trick the applesoft interpreter by intercepting display related
calls (HOME, etc.). If Applesoft is your thing, the terminal
trick is probably not for you. (The Mbasic with the CP/M card
could make you swear off Applesoft forever, though!!!) If so, grit
your teeth and watch that sloooooooow video scroll by...
Paul Heffner
AT&T-IS, Altamonte Springs, Fl.
{ihnp4,akgua,attmail}!bsdpkh!heff
my work on my Z-80 board or in Apple pascal kamath@reed.UUCP (Sean Kamath) (03/30/86)
In article <190@bsdpkh.UUCP> heff@bsdpkh.UUCP (Paul K Heffner) writes: >unacceptably slow response of the cards available. The situation >seems to be just as bad on the ][e (and to me this is inexcusable >considering the 80-vid on the ][e is completely memory mapped and >should be extermely fast!!). > > Paul Heffner Well, that's true of the old //e. It was so slow because it did one bank of the screen at a time. It had problems with 1200 baud modems, also. The new //e is worth the upgrade price just for the faster scrolling. Sean Kamath ihnp4!tektronix!reed!kamath
cjl@ecsvax.UUCP (Charles Lord) (03/30/86)
I disagree regarding the slowness of 80-column cards.
My Videx Videoterm that was bundled with Microsoft's CP/M card
scrolls faster than I can read.. The only problem is in high
speed terminal emulation such as 9600 baud- but my IBM compatables
(Compaq and Datavue) can't do that worth a d*mn either! Why buy a
$200 program for a $2500 computer to do the job that a $400
terminal does better?
Charles Lord
Triangle Research & Development Corp.
Research Triangle Park, NC
...!decvax!mcnc!ecsvax!cjldr@ski.UUCP (David Robins) (04/01/86)
> The only problem is Applesoft, which doesn't easily talk to > terminals without special coding. Most current 80-column boards > trick the applesoft interpreter by intercepting display related > calls (HOME, etc.). If Applesoft is your thing, the terminal > trick is probably not for you. (The Mbasic with the CP/M card > could make you swear off Applesoft forever, though!!!) If so, grit > your teeth and watch that sloooooooow video scroll by... > > > Paul Heffner > AT&T-IS, Altamonte Springs, Fl. > {ihnp4,akgua,attmail}!bsdpkh!heff While it's true the Apple ][e 80-column board is slow, I think this is because the scrolling is done in software. Sean Kamath pointed out that the monitor ROM's in the enhanced //e help the system scroll faster. However, in reading the Softerm II manual, I find that most other 80-column cards for the Apple use hardware scrolling, which I understand is MUCH faster, and able to keep up with higher-than 1200 baud rates. I think most of these other cards are normal-clot cards, rather than auxiliary-slot cards. Since I haven't used these, I can't tell first-hand what the speed increase looks like. -- ==================================================================== David Robins, M.D. Smith-Kettlewell Institute of Visual Sciences 2232 Webster St; San Francisco CA 94115 415/561-1705 {ihnp4,qantel,dual}!ptsfa!ski!dr The opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of the Institute!
ix742@sdcc6.UUCP (James Hayes) (04/04/86)
dr@ski.UUCP (David Robins) writes in article <237@ski.UUCP>: >> ... >> could make you swear off Applesoft forever, though!!!) If so, grit >> your teeth and watch that sloooooooow video scroll by... > >...However, in reading the Softerm II manual, I find that most other >80-column cards for the Apple use hardware scrolling, which I >understand is MUCH faster, and able to keep up with higher-than 1200 >baud rates. I think most of these other cards are normal-clot cards, >rather than auxiliary-slot cards. Since I haven't used these, I can't >tell first-hand what the speed increase looks like. The speed increase is wonderful. My 80 column card scrolls in appox. 15 usec. (yes 15) The display can't keep up with it. It uses a Motorola 6845 display controller in it. Just change two words (two 16 bit addresses), and you're done. Jim Hayes, UCSD. -- UUCP: {ihnp4, ucbvax, celerty, etc...}!sdcsvax!wizard!hayes ARPA: hayes%wizard@UCSD.EDU