geoff@burl.UUCP (07/15/86)
Does anyone have any experience in including DOS in a product? I have seen stand-alone disks that boot the Apple, load themselves, and go. I assume they have a copy of DOS on the disk to load the program and to do any kind of disk read/write the program might need. Is this licensed through Apple? How much does it cost? I have a program that runs under DOS 3.3 right now, but I may move it to ProDos later. Currently, the user has to boot up (the correct version of) DOS, then BRUN the program. Since I will have two separate programs on the disk I can't get around the BRUN, but I would at least like to guarantee that the user has the right version of DOS. Thanks for your help, -- geoff sherwood ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!geoff ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!geoff "If your words can't stand on their own, adding volume won't help"
sdh@joevax.UUCP (07/16/86)
> Does anyone have any experience in including DOS in a product? I have > seen stand-alone disks that boot the Apple, load themselves, and go. > I assume they have a copy of DOS on the disk to load the program and > to do any kind of disk read/write the program might need. Is this > licensed through Apple? How much does it cost? I have a program > that runs under DOS 3.3 right now, but I may move it to ProDos later. > Currently, the user has to boot up (the correct version of) DOS, then > BRUN the program. Since I will have two separate programs on the disk > I can't get around the BRUN, but I would at least like to guarantee that > the user has the right version of DOS. I have known of no problems with distributing disks with Apple DOS on them. The reason most people use their own routines for starting things up is for software protection, or just because Apple DOS is soooooo slow. If you would like to make your binary program the startup file (so the user need not BRUN it) doo the following CALL -151 9E42:34 CTRL-C (to exit the monitor) INIT filename, Sn, Dn This will leave your disk init'ed with a basic program called "filename" as your hello program. Delete it, and replace it with your Binary file WITH THE SAME FILE NAME. I do not believe this works if the diskette has been updated to a master (using master create). Steve Hawley joevax!sdh
ranger@ecsvax.UUCP (Rick N. Fincher) (07/17/86)
> Does anyone have any experience in including DOS in a product? I have > seen stand-alone disks that boot the Apple, load themselves, and go. > I assume they have a copy of DOS on the disk to load the program and > to do any kind of disk read/write the program might need. Is this > > Thanks for your help, > Dos 3.3 or Prodos must be licensed from Apple. The charge is $50 per year per product. Call Apple and they will send you the forms. They usually send forms to become a certified developer too. This is free and they send good info and offer cut rate hardware for development purposes. They also have a registered developer program for the heavyweights that costs $$$. When you call ask for developer support. Rick Fincher Computing Center North Carolina State University Ranger@ECSVAX
timlee@bnrmtv.UUCP (07/17/86)
> Does anyone have any experience in including DOS in a product? I have > seen stand-alone disks that boot the Apple, load themselves, and go. > I assume they have a copy of DOS on the disk to load the program and > to do any kind of disk read/write the program might need. Is this > licensed through Apple? How much does it cost? I have a program > that runs under DOS 3.3 right now, but I may move it to ProDos later. > Currently, the user has to boot up (the correct version of) DOS, then > BRUN the program. Since I will have two separate programs on the disk > I can't get around the BRUN, but I would at least like to guarantee that > the user has the right version of DOS. Many "load-and-go" programs are copy protected; some of these use a completely alien DOS which has no relation to Apple's DOS. Others use a modified version of Apple's DOS. I don't know what licensing, if any, that Apple requires in distributing DOS with a program either as is or modified. Apple itself would be your best source of this info. DOS 3.3/ProDOS question: If it's ok with Apple to distribute its DOS, just provide a DOS and a ProDOS version on opposite sides of the disk. If it isn't ok, then do the same but delete the DOS from both sides. Be sure to mark which side is DOS and which is ProDOS. Then the user can boot whatever s/he has, insert the correct side, and BRUN the program. Note: few programs for the Apple are distributed without any DOS on it. The only exceptions I know of are disks of public domain software in which people try to stuff as much as possible onto a disk. I suspect that consumers may frown on a non-bootable program disk. Call Apple and find out what they think about distributing DOS. They probably aren't that restrictive or expensive, since their DOS is found on every non-protected disk sold with software.
hsu@eneevax.UUCP (Dave Hsu) (07/18/86)
In article <1367@burl.UUCP> geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff) writes: >Does anyone have any experience in including DOS in a product? I have >seen stand-alone disks that boot the Apple, load themselves, and go. >I assume they have a copy of DOS on the disk to load the program and >to do any kind of disk read/write the program might need. Is this >licensed through Apple? How much does it cost? I have a program >that runs under DOS 3.3 right now, but I may move it to ProDos later. >... >-- > geoff sherwood I seem to remember way back when that Apple sold some sort of distribution licenses for 3.3 much in the same way that they sold run-time modules for the p-system. When you mention load and go software, I presume you mean commercial canned stuff. Thanks to the wonderful world of copy protection, most of these sport either fully-custom boot sections of their own (i.e. Flight Simulator) or customized versions of Apple's own software (like Castle Wolfenstein, or Ultima II). Most software publishers have tried to move away from this latter method, because it creates legal hassles for them if they aren't careful. The classic case of this involves a 3-in-one arcade game that a major manufacturer produced about 4 years ago; they had bought the program from a young programmer who also pirated disks as a hobby. The protection scheme involved tweaking the directory track, and overwriting the original DOS with a customized version. Then, the disk was slapped into the bulk copier. Trouble is, the original had arrived on their doorstep with a deleted, unlocked 3.3 binary of Choplifter on it, and they had neglected to scramble the original disk tables. So, with the aid of any undelete program, your 3-in-one game had just become a 4-in-one game. Needless to say, the company involved was NOT Broderbund, and the disk was pulled. I doubt that you'd be willing to devote the resources to writing a dos, and licensing the Real Thing could be more trouble than it's worth. Because... The last alternative is to use a PD dos. If your program does not require access to ordinary files (i.e. load memory once and run) there are a number of tiny (3-sector) loader programs that don't require a dos, but run very very quickly. If you do need a dos, packages like DavidDOS (and I think, the Beagle one too) require only an attribution somewhere in your opening sequence. I gave up hacking my ][+ when ProDOS started to gain in popularity, so I'm afraid I have no useful advice to you if you need access to existing files. -dave -- David Hsu (301) 454-1433 || -8798 "It was Dave, not me..honest!" -eneevax Communication & Signal Processing Lab / Engineering Computer Facility The University of Maryland -~- College Park, MD 20742 ARPA:hsu@eneevax.umd.edu UUCP:[seismo,allegra,rlgvax]!umcp-cs!eneevax!hsu "Who cometh to the bridge of death must answer me these questions three, 'ere the other side he see....aiggggh!"
nazgul@apollo.uucp (Kee Hinckley) (07/19/86)
In article <1367@burl.UUCP> geoff@burl.UUCP (geoff) writes: > Does anyone have any experience in including DOS in a product? I have > seen stand-alone disks that boot the Apple, load themselves, and go. > I assume they have a copy of DOS on the disk to load the program and > to do any kind of disk read/write the program might need. Is this > licensed through Apple? How much does it cost? I have a program > that runs under DOS 3.3 right now, but I may move it to ProDos later. > Currently, the user has to boot up (the correct version of) DOS, then > BRUN the program. Since I will have two separate programs on the disk > I can't get around the BRUN, but I would at least like to guarantee that > the user has the right version of DOS. > > Thanks for your help, > > -- > > geoff sherwood > ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!geoff > ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!geoff > Write to Apple and ask for information on licensing their software. They'll send you a list of available software (which, by the way, includes some wonderful stuff for doing all of the Mac-like graphics under Prodos) and prices. The prices average about $50 a year to license the stuff, and they'll send you a master copy of whatever you order, plus any necessary documentation. All you have to do is sign a document telling them the name of the company (or yourself), the name of the software and a brief description of what it does. -kee -- Mail is welcome... ...{yale,uw-beaver,decvax!wanginst}!apollo!nazgul Apollo Computer, Chelmsford MA. (617) 256-6600 x7587 There's so many different worlds, so many different suns And we have just one world, but we live in different ones. Dire Straits - "Brothers in Arms"