trb (04/12/83)
I was originally just gonna mail to Mary Sarantakos after she posted her note in support of Sarah Groves, Rob Glaser and Guy Harris, but I felt the topic would merit discussion, so I'm posting it. I have lately posted a mess of netnews, completely negating my reputation as a strong, silent type (ha). Anyway, please read on, it won't be too offensive. The local problem here is that Mary didn't like my tone of voice and probably didn't like the opinions I expressed in my messages about the women's movement. She seems to have taken issue with my method of expression and I have this extremely rare opportunity to find out what people think, frankly. Maybe this should go into net.something else, but it's a continuation of a net.women discussion, so it'll go here. If this bears fruit, we can move it. On to what I was to tell Mary... Ya, I write glibly, I make statements in netnews which aren't too well thought out. I think of netnews as a "here today, gone tomorrow, if at first you don't succeed, try try again" kind of medium. I know a lot of people read it, but they also read so much other stuff. I have to make an impression to get a point across. Sometimes I am pretty harsh on others, some people (like you) just don't like it, others respect me for expressing my feelings as I feel them (and only sometimes still don't like it). My comments are often irritating and abrasive. I'm often irritating and abrasive in person. Mary says my comments always irritate her. That's ok, I don't think she means that literally (maybe most of the time). I think I'm fun sometimes, sometimes even when I'm abrasive. If I'm in bad straits, depressed or hurt, that comes out (sometimes) in a sour bit of my netnews. If something in netnews bugs me past some point I speak my piece, and often it's caustic. I do also try to be positive when I feel like it, I think I get lots of supportive mail. Maybe I remember the supportive mail more easily, as you probably remember my caustic contributions more readily. I wonder, in my work environment, and in the social environment, should I shut up and be a gentleman or should I speak my mind? I like to speak my mind. Get it out on the table and pick it apart. I like it that way. I reserve being gentle for times when small forces are required. I wouldn't take a hammer to a pocketwatch. Sometimes a hammer is just the thing, though. Some people don't like to see the hammer, it smashes things sometimes. They once got their finger caught under one. They say that dignified people don't use hammers. Don't suggest that I speak my mind like a gentleman. I do my best at that, and I think my idea of gentleman is different from yours. So I speak my sometimes irritating thoughts and sometimes people grimace, sometimes they sit quietly glad that I said it, sometimes they agree with what I said but not with how I said it, sometimes they just say they agree. The question I raise is, particularly in a social environment, in a close relationship, or in relating to friends, do you/should you speak up or sit back and be quiet? I don't want this to degenerate into a discussion of what you think about MY manners. If you have comments on that, my mailbox is always open, I never send anything to /dev/null. I'd like to hear about your experiences in dealing frankly with other people. Andy Tannenbaum Bell Labs Whippany, NJ (201) 386-6491
mts (04/12/83)
Thanks for that last post, Andy. I truly was beginning to wonder about you. But you are HUMAN after all. Great! I think, in matters of discussion, I am not the type of person who takes kindly to aggressive argument. I have to admit also that I find it very difficult to interpret the attitudes and feelings of people through just reading their Net writings. So perhaps I am at fault in judging much of what is 'said' over the Net with sarcasm or some other emotion, only because the reader must carefully pick apart each word and truly understand the original meaning. Please don't stop contributing to net.women. That's not what I meant in my displeasure with your writing. It's just that you come on overly strongly and never seem to give a little and com- promise. To truly understand the women's movement, you have to try(and so do we all) to be more sensitive, try to put on the other person's shoes, and really accept the experiences of othersas being meaningful. I hope you don't take offense to what I've 'said', it's just that it is a very touchy issue and cannot be considered as insignificant to the millions of women at work and home today.