sarah (04/09/83)
cFbL*Q I get the impression that non-sexists actually want their children to be non-sexed. People so often confuse equality with conformity. If they could have their children "fixed" I think they would. . . . . . . There aren't as many hot women hackers as there are hot men, but does that mean that there should be a *movement* or some legislation to change this? (excerpt from Andy Tannenbaum's note) I think A. Tannenbaum may be misunderstanding the purpose of the women's movement and non-sexism. The idea is not to level the differences between the sexes, but to eliminate differences in pay or opportunities which exist solely on the basis of sex. I think that women are much freer today to choose their lifestyles and occupations than they have been throughout most of history. However, there are still problems which should not be ignored. Much of the discrimination today is not as blatantly obvious as in previous years, but in many ways it can be much more damaging and frustrating. The subtle discouragement which women who choose to pursue traditionally "male" careers experience is very difficult to fight. The women's movement has been instrumental in providing needed support and encourage- ment to women who have chosen a difficult course. And, yes, Andy, it is still difficult for a woman to choose to pursue a career such as computer programming. Perhaps that's why there are not as many "hot women hackers". It is difficult because there are few role models. It is difficult because it is a strain to pursue an education when many of the professors are male and often not especially approving of women in traditionally "male" disciplines. It is difficult to deal with men who are alternately condescending and intimidated by a female in a non- traditional role. It is difficult because it means rearranging, and often rejecting, many of the traditional values you were taught as a young child. And it is difficult to deal with women who are frightened of the consequences of others who are breaking out of tradition. The women's movement is necessary because, although a woman may be free to choose, it is still an uphill battle to accomplish her goals. --Sarah Groves
billw (04/10/83)
#R:rdin:-27100:sri-unix:15000002:000:189 sri-unix!billw Apr 9 13:47:00 1983 foo. Women dont face nearly as much ridicule going into traditionally male professions as men do going into traditionally female professions. How many house husbands do you know? Bill W
barbara (04/15/83)
#R:rdin:-27100:hp-pcd:19100002:000:808 hp-pcd!barbara Apr 14 12:30:00 1983 Bill, I'll admit I know few "house husbands" and those I do know put up with a GREAT DEAL of abuse. However, other than "house husband" and "secretary", there don't seem to be too many occupations men can take on and get RAZZED for choosing. There are many occupations which women will be reproached for choosing. To name a few: (any hard science) engineer, doctor, truck driver, police(wo)man, fire(wo)man, any political position, any managerial position (which may include men), etc. There are no doubt many more positions which create equally hostile reactions when women are in them. And these positions seem to out number those which create hostility towards men (house husband). So... neither is fair, but the numbers seem to stack against women. barbara r hp-pcd!barbara