[net.women] is prejudice in the language?

sarah@rdin.UUCP (sarah) (08/23/83)

cFb<*A

    Questions for Saumya Debray:

    Since you say it is the usage that determines the meaning of a word,
    why do you bring up the point about the "-man" suffix originating from 
    Old German "mann" as a genderless term? In common usage, it is understood 
    to mean "male" nowadays.

    Do you also use the phrase "male fireman", or do you assume the masculine?
    Why must you qualify with the word "female" if you actually subscribe to 
    the view that "-man" is a genderless suffix?

    Yes, prejudice is reflected in the language and exerts influence upon
    people's outlooks.

					    Sarah Groves
					    New York
					    philabs!rdin!sarah

mason@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Mason) (09/02/83)

Sarah Groves asks a good question: " Do you also use the phrase `male fireman'
..."
The answer (although I wasn't the direct object of the question) is yes,
sometimes.  I wonder how significant it could be if just everyone who
subscribes to this group were to start using "male xxxx" or "female xxxx"
wherever appropriate.  I for one plan to attempt to use the terms whenever I
am not referring to the generic.

 -- Gandalf's flunky Hobbit --   Dave Mason, U. Toronto CSRG,
        {cornell,watmath,ihnp4,floyd,allegra,utzoo,uw-beaver}!utcsrgv!mason
     or {decvax,linus,lsuc,research}!utzoo!utcsrgv!mason   (UUCP)

mark@hp-pcd.UUCP (09/10/83)

#R:rdin:-30500:hp-kirk:16500011:000:939
hp-kirk!mark    Sep  8 09:26:00 1983

I believe the suffix -man is generally genderless in use.
Certainly there are people who use it specifically to mean a
male, but this is not the common use.  As to using the term
fireman and female fireman, this is an unfortunate practice that
is due more to the male fireman stereotype than to any gender
associated with the suffix and is equivalent to the use of the
terms nurse and male nurse.

On a related note, it might be interesting to watch the evolving
use of the term housewife.  I think there is a good chance that
over the coming years we will see increasing numbers of "male
housewives" (househusband is such a clumsy term).  This may lead
to housewife eventually becoming a genderless expression.  (this
is just a prediction not a statement of what I feel should or not
be).
                    From the crystal ball of
                    Mark Rowe
                    hplabs!hp-pcd!mark
                    Corvallis, Or.

mcewan@uiucdcs.UUCP (09/13/83)

#R:rdin:-30500:uiucdcs:31600018:000:480
uiucdcs!mcewan    Sep 12 21:57:00 1983

Maybe I'm different from everyone else, but I don't parse "fireman" as
"fire-man", I just think of it as one word. Yes, I usually picture a
man when confronted with "fireman", but that's because I'm conditioned
to think of firefighting as a male profession. I also tend to think
male when I hear "doctor" or "engineer" (although to a lesser extent,
since I know women doctors and engineers).
I think most people who use the phrase "female fireman" would also
say "female doctor".