pc@hplabsb.UUCP (Patricia Collins) (09/07/83)
Today I learned that my son's pediatrician is quitting practice. It seems that the medical profession cannot accomodate people who want to restrict their practice to, say, 40 hours/week. Although the idea of job-sharing seems quite reasonable in a field where "full-time" means about 60 hours/week, there was apparently no possibility of this in the foreseeable future. This Pediatrician was considered the pick of the crop after finishing a pediatric fellowship at Stanford. I have also heard that my Ob-Gyn is leaving practice as well. I have not heard the details, but I believe the problems are similar. Both of these physicians have young children at home. They are not content to have someone else with their children all day, every day. I consider both of these physicians to be exceptional in their fields. I suppose that the idea of balancing one's profession with other aspects of one's life is fairly radical to some, but it seems HEALTHY to me. I feel fortunate that I work for an employer who is supportive of professionals (*) who balance their personal, spiritual, civic, and social lives. I wish there were more I could do to be assured that my physician attempts a balanced life. For those who wonder why I've posted this to net.women and not net.med, I guess it is because I see this as a problem of interest to the "kind of people" who subscribe to net.women. It happens that the only people I know personally who are struggling with this problem are women. But, I realize there are like-hearted men out there struggling with the same problems. Are there any organizations working toward The Enlightenment of The Establishment in this area? Where do I sign up? Patricia Collins hplabs (*) I use the term "professional" to refer to anyone who takes her/his job seriously and approaches it in a responsible, respectible manner.
ellis@FLAIRMAX.UUCP (Michael Ellis) (09/08/83)
Yes! Yes! This society needs to offer much more paternity & maternity leave than the current 0 for men and several weeks for women! Children who spend their 1st 6 years at day care centers instead of with their parents (both - equally!) are getting a bum deal. My first six years at home with my mother were the most wonderful time in my life! Too bad my father wasn't there, though (he was at work). So what's an enlightened woman to do these days? To stay at home scrubbing floors is to be discarded at age 50. To take up a career is to either raise maladjusted children or forego child rearing entirely - leaving the creation of the next generation to traditionally-minded women. With child rearing getting such bad press from hardcore libbers, it's not surprising so many men continue the uninvolved ways of their fathers - yet it seems clear that men's lagging attitudes are at the center of the problem. No wonder the women's movement is failing so badly, what with so many men who consider the role of househusband to be degrading. Women's lib is dying from it's exclusivity by concentrating on women acquiring the worst aspects of traditional masculinity rather than encouraging men to acquire the best qualities of traditional womanhood. What's needed is simply: 1. The recognition by all that child nurturing is the highest achievment of a man's or woman's life, and not a boring, despicable burden, which attitude results in malformed children, and lack of paternal involvement. 2. Women who make enough money to support their families when it is the man's turn to stay at home. Too much disparity in income will cause pressure on one or the other to keep working, resulting in a less balanced life for both. Dammit, why aren't more women studying math? 3. Equal and extensive (3 years) job leave for new parents. Without pay is fine, since the salary of one engineer is easily enough to support a family of 4 - provided they're not hung up on expensive TV-inspired crap like BMW's and impressive gadget-laden houses in dull, pretentious neighborhoods. After all, what 3-year old child cares about these things? In Patricia Collin's words: > Are there any organizations working toward The Enlightenment > of The Establishment in this area? Where do I sign up? -michael `remember John Lennon' ellis
stevel@ima.UUCP (09/10/83)
#R:hplabsb:-183400:ima:36300005:000:434
ima!stevel Sep 9 09:00:00 1983
A reminder to Ellis. Not every one is an engineer. Not even on
USENET. Some of the non engineering jobs pay well. Hence math
is not a nesesity for women who want good jobs. Lets not say women
have to become nerds to get into the job market. There are lots
of non nerd, non engineer men out there making good money. I bet
some of them even like thier jobs.
Steve Ludlum decvax!yale-co!ima!stevel, {ihnp4|ucbvax}!cbosgd!ima!stevel,laura@utcsstat.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (09/10/83)
if you make child raising too attractive then people who actually have little or no aptitude in it with think that they are obligated to have kids. Anything which is labeled "the highest aspiration of mankind" gets a pretty dirty look from me -- for people are not that uniform that one can really make such general statements. Laura Creighton utzoo!utcsstat!laura
dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (09/14/83)
There are lots of families who need both parents working in some
sense and who are not buying BMW's and third VCR's. Sure, it's less
than essential. I'm not talking about needing a second income to eat.
But if you want to buy a decent detached home these days (detached
homes are a standard in Toronto, unlike some cities), it costs a fair
chunk of money, and a second income may well be necessary.
--
{cornell,decvax,floyd,ihnp4,linus,utzoo,uw-beaver,watmath}!utcsrgv!lsuc!davepreece@uicsl.UUCP (09/19/83)
#R:hplabsb:-183400:uicsl:16400016:000:5270 uicsl!preece Sep 12 10:21:00 1983 Children who spend their 1st 6 years at day care centers instead of with their parents (both - equally!) are getting a bum deal. My first six years at home with my mother were the most wonderful time in my life! Too bad my father wasn't there, though (he was at work). --- Well, I wouldn't want to put a kid into full-time (9 hours/day) daycare, unless it was really thee only choice available, but I think part-time (say, 5 hours/day) care after about 18 months is a good idea. By that time kids are eager for more diversity and the stimulation of other kids. My daughter made huge language strides in the first two weeks of daycare. Until that point she hadn't really needed to talk. Obviously, the age at which this appropriate is highly variable and extreme care is necessary in picking the place, but I feel very strongly that keeping kids at home all the time is a bad idea. (I can't really comment on my first five years; my memories are fragmentary at best. I was at home basically all the time until nursery school at age 4.) --- The recognition by all that child nurturing is the highest achievment of a man's or woman's life, and not a boring, despicable burden, which attitude results in malformed children, and lack of paternal involvement. --- I think there's got to be a middle ground between "boring, despicable" and "the highest achievement...". I'm uncomfortable with the notion that the best thing we can do with our limited time on earth is to produce and prepare the next generation to do the same. Obviously our children are very important to us and in many ways their preparation is a central goal of our lives, but I'd like to think we'll do other things as well that are important to ourselves and others. I wouldn't say there's been very much boredom in our lives since we've had kids (5 years) and I certainly wouldn't say anything about it was despicable (thought there have been a few minutes of disgust...). --- Women who make enough money to support their families when it is the man's turn to stay at home. Too much disparity in income will cause pressure on one or the other to keep working, resulting in a less balanced life for both. Dammit, why aren't more women studying math? --- It is true that my wife acquired (pretty clearly at Society's behest) an aversion to math at an early age, but I don't think that's really vital to equivalent earnings. Nonetheless, we're making every effort to make our daughter expect to be better at math than her little brother, on the assumption that Society will take care of his expectations. --- Equal and extensive (3 years) job leave for new parents. Without pay is fine, since the salary of one engineer is easily enough to support a family of 4 - provided they're not hung up on expensive TV-inspired crap like BMW's and impressive gadget-laden houses in dull, pretentious neighborhoods. After all, what 3-year old child cares about these things? --- I'll vote for the job leave, but the without pay part is not as clearly acceptable. Not every family includes two engineers (or even one), and many families cannot forego even one parent's income. I also think that anti-materialism is not all it's cracked up to be. Are kids from back-to-nature, anti-materialistic households as likely to end up engineers and executives as those from materialistic, high-tech, aggressive families? (I'm not saying that's good or bad, though the original note did support increased math understanding, above). As to neighborhoods, remember that your kids' friends' parents are going to be your kids' role models, too. Dull, pretentious neighborhoods are likely to have an above average population in income and education; I like to know that my kids are playing with kids that speak reasonably normal English, have similar values, and are being brought up in ways I generally approve of. On the other hand, it should be noted that my neighborhood is not, probably, what you were speaking of; it's the local 'faculty ghetto,' and there's plenty of diversity as well. But, generally, I'd prefer my kids to grow up in a dull, pretentious suburb than a slum. I'm sure there's a middle ground. As to what three-year olds care about, they tend to want things, too. Even if their TV is pretty much limited to PBS, they still deal with other kids and they see toys and things in stores and at daycare or nursery school. My two-year old is heavily into Legos (I know, they say three and up, but I can't keep his five-year old sister from playing with them, so all I can do is make sure he doesn't play with them alone...). The largest expense we've had for them, though, is for books. We both felt strongly that the kids should develop an early, deep love for books not only by being read to, but by having their own books. So possessions become important again. Ah, well... I don't want to leave the wrong impression. I think the most important thing in raising kids is to let them know at every opportunity that you love them, that they are important to you, and that they can cound on you. I've been lucky -- the academic environment has let me spend a lot of time with my kids that a 9-5 job, plus commuting, would not. I wouldn't have missed it. scott preece pur-ee!uiucdcs!uicsl!preece