trb@floyd.UUCP (Andy Tannenbaum) (09/27/83)
Here are my answers to the questions. Some are not pretty, none are meant to offend. I suspect that I'll catch hell for some the following sentiments, but I'm calling it like I see it: What do you personally perceive is the proportion of women to men in computer science? On what do you base your opinion? I dunno, two men for each woman? I don't really see what value my opinion is on this question of fact, except if you were trying to glean some possible mud to sling from some inaccuracy on my part. I base my opinion on vague impressions looking around in the halls here and thinking about the numbers at school. There is a higher percentage of women here than at there was school because I went to tech school, and most people here went to more well rounded, and hence, more sexually balanced, universities. Are women interested in different areas of c.s. than men? (Hardware vs. software, programming vs. management, or whatever.) How so? I definitely don't see many women in digital computer design. There seem to be lots of women in the signal processing biz. I don't know why this is, I would think that signal processing would have as much entrenched sexist attitudes as the other traditional EE disciplines, but it doesn't appear to be that way. There aren't many women in management, I don't know if management is part of CS, but then again, neither is signal processing. Women appear to be interested in management, not, I think, because they think that they would enjoy it, but because they, as a group, want to be equal to (better than?) men, and Working Savvy Woman Hear Me Roar magazine always prints articles on how to eat, sleep, drink, and dress for success, and that means a big office in the corner of the top floor of some skyscraper. My personal idea of success has more to do with being a wizard where mere mortals will wonder whether I really put my pants on in the morning one leg at a time. That has more to do with learning, in my case hacking and sharing knowledge, rather than the dog-eat-dog step-on-someone's feet world of corporate wheelism. I can only pity people who strive for (and don't achieve) that sort of success. (Brace yourselves.) I get the impression that women are doing more low quality high level sissy work - applications, human factors, support software, office automation, picayune system administration, and less high quality low level real man work - operating system stuff, networking, good editors, compilers, etc. I'm not saying that there aren't ANY women who can hack up a storm, I know that there are a few. It just seems that the proportion of mediocre women hackers to great women hackers is greater than the proportion of mediocre hackers to great hackers. Are women's roles in c.s. different than men's? How? I don't think women's roles in CS should be different than men's. If the roles are different, and I think that they are, I feel it's the woman's choosing. I emphasise that I can't imagine a woman with great CS expertise being turned down anywhere today (where a man would be accepted). And I can't see a man with mediocre skill getting any further than a woman with mediocre skills. Why do women enter c.s.? (I did because it's a way to be paid for playing games..) I would think that women would enter CS for the same reason as men. When I was a boy in engineering school (BS CS '78), most hackers were guys and we did it for love; the big money was in Chem E and EE. Nowadays, the big bucks are in CS so all the capitalist pigs are learning Pascal. It's enough to make a hacker want to puke. I hack because now and then it gives me that sensual rush that makes you look forward to tomorrow with a smile on your face. (Yes, like sex.) I guess I experienced this potential when I started hacking nine years ago, that was a while back. Do women become interested in computer science at a later age than men? (college as opposed to high school, maybe?) I never logged into a computer until I got to college (1974). I certainly can't buy this crap that says that women aren't getting as far as men because they are getting introduced later. I started in college and I have progressed at a reasonable clip. So I don't know if women would become interested in CS later these days. I would think that CS would be less discriminatory, it's new, and the computer doesn't play favorites. I think that hacking is elegant enough to be women's work, right up there with the arts. No greasy grime, a chance to express yourself, a subtle, sublime, subliminal, power trip. What more could a woman want? Are women's career opportunities in c.s. different than men's? No. women's career opportunities in CS are the same as men's. If you're mediocre, you will settle into the painful existence of the mediocre. If you're HOT, then the world will beat a path to your door, doesn't matter if you're a woman, doesn't even matter if you're a boor. If you can get the job done, you'll find more opportunities than you can shake a stick at. If a woman wants to be a manager, she will have the same problems breaking into management as inany other endeavor, I recon, it's not a function of CS. Do women get negative responses from other women when they discuss their work? I'm not a woman, but I would think that a woman would get the same negative response discussing her work with someone who is afraid of machines as I would get. Is there a correlation between loving c.s. and playing D&D? How about video games? Yea, I'd say that there's a correlation. I'm not a D&D player. I think there's a correlation between science fiction/fantasy lovers, hacker/ee's, Chinese food lovers, D&D players. It goes with the territory, the significant link isn't necessarily CS and D&D. I don't play video games, but I guess there'd be a correlation too. My point remains about there being nothing surprising or interesting about this correlation. If you feel like sending me mail, please let me know your sex, age, and your computer environment. For instance, I work in a software house that employs under 50 people, and not long before this I was studying at Yale. I've worked at Bell Labs for 5+ years but I'm off to Masscomp, a large startup. I'm 24, male, single, 4.1bsd hacker on a 780. I went to Worcester Tech. Andy Tannenbaum Bell Labs Whippany, NJ (201) 386-6491