[net.women] Girl vs. Woman Revisited

cindym@azure.UUCP (Cindy McMeekin) (12/14/83)

My, my, haven't I caused a controversy.  I have never seen my name in
print that many times.  Even called a radical, heavens.  You'll note that
this is not an apology.

Cindy McMeekin
tektronix!tekmdp!cindym

saquigley@watdaisy.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) (12/18/83)

I do not think that looking in dictionaries for the meaning of the words
"boy" or "girl" is very relevant to this discussion, as most dictionaries
have been written by men and are therefore written from a man's point of
view of the world.  Before the flaming starts, let me add that this is not
a criticism (although some of what will follow is), but just a remark.  I
do not believe that there is such a thing as objectivity, and find it comple-
tely natural that dictionaries end up with the biases of their authors.
Maybe "girl" is an "accepted" term for young unmarried women, but "accepted"
by who? certainly not by me or by quite a few women I know! and I think
we certainly have a say about what we like to be called and think we should
be called.

Dictionaries are not gospels containing the *T*R*U*T*H*, but simply
records of the current state of a language in a society.  I believe that
writers of dictionaries honestly try to make this record as accurate as
possible, and they are doing a pretty good job of it;  It must however be
realised that societies and languages evolve and that we have control on that
evolution.  This is why this discussion is going on.  Some women object to
being called "girls" because of the connotations of this term; when people
will have objected enough, the usage will eventually become obsolete, and
dictionaries will list it but as archaic (obsolete, rare, slang, vulgar,
or not at all, who knows..).

Now for those who do not believe that dictionaries are biased, here are a
few counterexamples, but first the story on how I discovered them.  For the
last few years, I have been buying dictionaries right and left, and not knowing
how to go about doing such a thing decided to opt for the following solution:
pick a few dictionaries which are about the same size, and have about the same
number of words, open one of them at random, then locate the equivalent page
on all the others, and compare the different definitions of the same word. 
After doing this for a few pages, one quickly notices which dictionaries one
prefers.  Anyway, throughout this shopping spree, I had been avoiding "dirty"
words, because I thought that looking at them is a pretty immature thing to do
and that anyway, with our past history of shame about sexuality, dictionaries
are probably pretty careful nowadays about definitions of sexual terms and
try not to be biased about it, right?  WRONG!! when I finally stumbled on the
word "lesbian" in my Houghton Mifflin Canadian Dictionary, which I had liked so
far, here's what I found:  
noun:
1-a native or resident of Lesbos,
2-The ancient Greek dialect of Lesbos ...
adjective:
1-Of or relating to Lesbos and its people,
2-Of or relating to the ancient dialect of Lesbos.
3-Of or characteristic of Sappho and her poetry.

That's it Folks!  My next though was, "how foolish! I bought a dictionary
without sex words", so I checked up a few others; well, I found to my surprise,
that the words "homosexual", "homosexuality", "gay" (as in homosexual) were
defined. I quickly checked all my less obscure dictionaries for all the sexual
terms I could think of to compare their definitions.  I was quite satified with
most of them except for the following definitions in "Le Petit Robert", one
of the most respected french dictionaries:

Fellation: Acte sexuel consistant a exciter les parties genitales masculines
	par des caresses bucales.
which translates to
Fellatio: sexual act which consists in exciting the male genitals
	by mouth caresses.
(sounds like fun doesn't it?)

Cunnilingus: Pratique sexuelle qui met la bouche au contact des parties
	genitales feminines.
i.e
Cunnilingus: sexual practice which puts the mouth into contact with the
	feminine genitals.

So much for caresses and excitment!