ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) (12/15/83)
Clearly, the term "girl" when referring to a woman IS
offensive. A girl is a young, but more importantly,
POWERLESS woman. To call a woman "girl" is to say
"you are powerless, as you ought to be." & analogously
for calling a Black man "boy". It sure is gentlemanly of
some big, brave, macho studs on the net not to mind being
called "boy". But then men don't have to mind--
we have all the power in this society. Men who want
to work toward a more egalitarian society will have to stop
hiding behind their dictionaries. And that's the truth, Jack.
--
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..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken *** ***seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (12/16/83)
>> It sure is gentlemanly of >> some big, brave, macho studs on the net not to mind being >> called "boy". But then men don't have to mind-- >> we have all the power in this society. Men who want >> to work toward a more egalitarian society will have to stop >> hiding behind their dictionaries. And that's the truth, Jack. >> >> ken perlow I suppose I'm one of the people you're referring to, Ken. Except that I'm not "big". I'm not "macho". (yuck) And I'm not real sure about "brave". I'm not a "stud". I certainly _d_o_n_'_t have a lot of power in this society. If you would *read* the article where I said I didn't care what you called me (including "boy"), you would know that I care instead what the _i_n_t_e_n_d_e_d _m_e_a_n_i_n_g is. This covers the case of a boss calling his (or her? Do female bosses call their secretaries "girl"?) secretary "girl". Once someone told me to "have my girl do such and such". It took me quite awhile to figure out who he meant. I didn't have either a girlfriend or a daughter, and neither of these were applicable anyway. Finally I figured out that he meant the secretary for my department. It struck me as very odd that he would use the word "girl" when he meant "secretary". He had no guarentee that "my" secretary was female. To me, the word "woman" brings to mind a person my mother's age. I tend to use the word "girl" to refer to someone of about the same age as myself. Once I refered to a colleague as "girl". I meant no disrespect. She is intellegent, has a Masters degree, and is actually a few years older than I am. She is also a fairly radical 'libber', so naturally I caught quite a bit of flak for using the word "girl". In fact she made such a big deal out of it that I lost a little respect for her *because* she made such a big deal out of it. -sigh- Anyway, we still need a suitable word. "woman" often implies "old", "girl" implies "young", and perhaps "powerless", "lady" implies "on a pedastal" (see net.singles). Ok, adult female homo-sapiens of the net, how do you feel about "gal"? Is there anything "bad" that is implied by the word "gal"? searching for a word that doesn't insult *anybody*, (and wearing out my <"> key doing it :-) ) Snoopy -- ) ( ) from the mildly opinionated keyboard of _)__________________ |OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO| Dave Seifert |OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO| ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert |OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO| |------------------|
walsh@ihuxi.UUCP (12/16/83)
Dave Seifert felt that 'woman' implies 'old' and he would consider a female of his own age a 'girl'. What will he do when he's 'older' (whatever that is to him)? He felt 'woman' was a female of his mother's age. What's that? Is there a magic cut-off point where a girl becomes a woman? I don't think woman should imply old to anyone. It should imply maturity. And in the work- place, females should be given the benefit of the doubt that they are mature, just as the males are. This whole discussion was started as a question about addressing groups of professional females, not friends, neighbors, strangers, relatives, etc. etc.. Can there be any question but that females in the work- ing environment should be called 'women'? What's all the arguing about? B. Walsh
dnc@dartvax.UUCP (David Crespo) (01/08/84)
i understand the statement about "a woman being someone my mother's age" it is a perfectly freudian statement of the psychological feeling around the initail impressions of the word woman. woman, firstly, no matter how much i would desire it otherwise, is mother, then only does my intellect and experience tell me to key in htat and look for the subtle changes that i expected to occur abouthte age of twenty in boys and girls to give them the "wholeness" characteristic of an adult, i.e. woman or man. It does not mean that at age fifty, only seventy yeayr olds are women, though i willno doubt feel that younger women will be "younger", assumming adirect correlation between age and wisdom. (which, as our current leadership indicates, is not, repeat, is not, neccessarily so.) there is also the phenomenon of being old or young for one's age (pardon the anachronism)...some people have "lived thorugh a lot" or are "young", innocent. that is a matter too wondrous and complexly beautiful to be described by one just entering the fray of life's ofering... (gough, sputter)... dnc @ dartmouth.