jj@rabbit.UUCP (02/28/84)
While I don't quite agree with John Quarterman (which will be clear soon, I think), I really can't agree with the comments that rape affects only females. <In fact, I'm offended by that statement.(You'll find THAT out soon, too.)> As a man, I find that other people (women in particular) treat me differently than they would if they had no fear of being attacked physically. <I'm not talking about threatening behavior, I'm talking about a 6'0" 185lb man walking into an elevator at 830PM at work, and the female person in the elevator immediately walking out, only to walk up the stairs and encounter me again when I get OFF the elevator, and then walk off down the hall in obvious panic.> I'm not a particularly threatening person, even given my size and weight, and I tend to act as non-threatening as is reasonable. What does this have to do with men raping women? Well, I can't see why any individual should fear another individual, unless the lesson that they've learned from life is that "All strangers are bad", or "All men are bad" or some combination of the above. This is the foremost thing that a woman learns from hearing about <I certainly hope not experiencing> rape and rape victims. The effects of this <rational> fear extend far beyond the victim and the criminal, in that they are reflected (unjustly, damnit) on to all males of the appropriate age by a great majority of the female population. I am male. Therefore, I am affected by the problem of males raping females. The effect is to create a form of fear and prejudice not unlike the effects of a greatly unbalanced racial population, where the weaker population feels that it is constantly threatened, leading to both fearful and agressive behavior on the part of both groups. <Gee, something like the current situation?? Funny that!> I am offended by anyone who feels that men are not affected by, or are somehow aided/empowered/advantaged by, rape. I regard such an attitude as seperatist, divisive, and likely to enhance the ?rage?anger?whatever? that motivates a rapist in the first place as well. (What DOES motivate a rapist, anyhow? I'm sure that someone knows, and that the subject has been discussed, but I haven't been in this newsgroup for a while. Maybe a short mail answer from a qualified person or so would be useful on that point.) I do NOT object to measures taken to avoid rape. I think that such actions are sometimes necessary, and that it is impossible to tell if such actions are/were necessary at the time. I do object, VERY MUCH, to the attitude of "us vs. them" or "get them first" or "They're all rapists". (I won't discuss my opinions of Brownmiller, et. al.) These attitudes are nothing but a form of prejudice that is bound to degrade an unhappy situation further, and to enhance the fears and emotional damage of those who are attacted or vulnerable to attack. I'm not trying to start a fire here, but I do think that extreme statements on either side (I'm not referring to either of the authors that are referred to in the ref's field of this note, necessarily.) don't help anything, and don't make anyone better. We're in this TOGETHER, damnit, let's act that way! -- TEDDY BEARS ARE NICER THAN PEOPLE-- HUG YOUR OWN TODAY ! (allegra,harpo,ulysses)!rabbit!jj
mazur@inmet.UUCP (03/06/84)
#R:rabbit:-255200:inmet:10900055:000:2668
inmet!mazur Mar 4 21:49:00 1984
What does this have to do with men raping women? Well, I can't see
why any individual should fear another individual, unless
the lesson that they've learned from life is that
"All strangers are bad", or "All men are bad" or
some combination of the above. This is the foremost thing that
a woman learns from hearing about <I certainly hope not
experiencing> rape and rape victims.
The effects of this <rational> fear extend far beyond the victim
and the criminal, in that they are reflected (unjustly, damnit)
on to all males of the appropriate age by a great majority of the
female population.
I agree that it is discomfiting for you to have women avoiding you late
at night at work (or on a street or in a bar). It's just as uncomfortable
for women to live with the fear of rape. I think it's very similar to the
fear of strangers that parents instill in their children. Many people worry
about what teaching this fear of strangers can do to children, but it seems
that it is more than worth the risk. In this latter case, yes, children are
taught that ALL strangers are bad, but I don't think women think that ALL
strangers or ALL men are bad. I think it comes down to "better be safe than
sorry".
The effect is to create a form of fear and prejudice not unlike the
effects of a greatly unbalanced racial population, where the weaker
population feels that it is constantly threatened, leading to both
fearful and agressive behavior on the part of both groups.
Isn't this exactly Susan Brownmiller's point?
I am offended by anyone who feels that men are not affected by,
or are somehow aided/empowered/advantaged by, rape. I regard
such an attitude as seperatist, divisive, and likely to enhance
the ?rage?anger?whatever? that motivates a rapist in the first
place as well.
Well, Brownmiller was also called a racist when her book came out. Although
I am not a disciple of Brownmiller's (and as of yet haven't read the entire
book), I still think that her ideas may have some merit. Also, jj's last
sentence could be interpreted to say (even though I'm sure he didn't intend
it) that "don't make a big thing out of this, or you'll get it worse".
I'm not trying to start a fire here, but I do think that
extreme statements on either side (I'm not referring to either
of the authors that are referred to in the ref's field of this
note, necessarily.) don't help anything, and don't make anyone
better. We're in this TOGETHER, damnit, let's act that way!
Well, we may not be extreme, but we're certainly polarized :-). I don't
want a fire, just some discussion.
Beth Mazur
{ima,harpo,esquire}!inmet!mazur