alan@allegra.UUCP (Alan S. Driscoll) (06/29/84)
> I'm really getting tired of hearing the feminists do exactly > what they are angry at men for doing. It seems to be OK these > days for women to say "all [or most] men do so-and-so", but if > a man says "all [or most] women do so-and-so", there is a big > outcry. > Well, it is our (men's) fault, because we haven't objected. Well, > Keith objected, and I'm objecting. *THAT* is a double standard > if I've ever seen one. I object, too. I've noticed that many women go through a stage of being angry at all men when they begin to find themselves. This is natural and understandable. What's sad is when a women never overcomes this anger and bitterness. It's a lousy place to get stuck! -- Alan S. Driscoll AT&T Bell Laboratories
chabot@amber.DEC (Lisa Chabot) (07/02/84)
Alan S. Driscoll said: > I've noticed that many women go through a stage of being angry at > all men when they begin to find themselves. This is natural and > understandable. What's sad is when a women never overcomes this > anger and bitterness. It's a lousy place to get stuck! It's not just women who get stuck here. If you keep up on net.singles, every so often up pops a crop of "I can't get a steady because women aren't up to my standards (they want to date other jerks / they aren't intelligent enough)." I suppose you could say that this is because the men posting these letters are beginning to find their social selves...but some seem to get stuck in this angry stage. If it's sad to never overcome the anger and bitterness, then it's also just as sad to have to deal with the recurring causes of this anger and bitterness, and they do still exist--inequality under the law (e.g., the draft), inequality in pay rates, and the expectations of society (husband's job more important to family than wife's, women expected to take non-aggressive or conciliatory roles). I realize that these inequalities also bind men; I'm all in favor of working to reduce them. I know and love too many fine and supportive individuals to lump men together in a despised heap; the support in part comes from their understanding that the frustration towards the inequalities I do at times demonstrate is not a rejection of them. Things are getting better, but they're not right yet. I'll admit that still flinch over old scars, such as being told that a degree from MIT could get me a job as a technical secretary (an honorable profession, however, not quite what I had in mind, and besides, then how in the world could I pay back these loans?). But, they only ache just before a storm, so just smile and tuck the lap robe around me, and leave me rocking on the porch, reminiscing and napping... L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA USFail: DEC, MR03-1/K20, 2 Iron Way, Marlborough, MA 01752 "...For it is in this inadequate flesh that each of us must serve his dream; and so, must fail in the dream's service, and must parody that which he holds dearest. To this we seem condemned, being what we are. Thus, one and all, we play false to the dream, and it evades us, and we dwindle into responsible citizens."
alan@allegra.UUCP (Alan S. Driscoll) (07/03/84)
>> I've noticed that many women go through a stage of being angry at >> all men when they begin to find themselves. This is natural and >> understandable. What's sad is when a women never overcomes this >> anger and bitterness. It's a lousy place to get stuck! > It's not just women who get stuck here. If you keep up on net.singles, every > so often up pops a crop of "I can't get a steady because women aren't up to my > standards (they want to date other jerks / they aren't intelligent enough)." I > suppose you could say that this is because the men posting these letters are > beginning to find their social selves...but some seem to get stuck in this > angry stage. I agree. I never meant to imply that men don't go through this stage too. > If it's sad to never overcome the anger and bitterness, then it's also just as > sad to have to deal with the recurring causes of this anger and bitterness, and > they do still exist--inequality under the law (e.g., the draft), inequality in > pay rates, and the expectations of society (husband's job more important to > family than wife's, women expected to take non-aggressive or conciliatory > roles). I realize that these inequalities also bind men; I'm all in favor of > working to reduce them. Again, I agree and sympathize. Don't forget, the traditional male role is repressive too, though in different ways. (I think there are woman who really don't appreciate this, thinking that men have it made in our culture. Not true.) > I know and love too many fine and supportive individuals to lump men together > in a despised heap; the support in part comes from their understanding that the > frustration towards the inequalities I do at times demonstrate is not a > rejection of them. As long as you are making statements about your own feelings, such as, "I feel frustrated," or, "I woke up this morning feeling like all men are creeps," then I can be understanding and supportive. When your statements turn into attacks, like Trish's, then you've closed the door between us. > Things are getting better, but they're not right yet. I'll admit that still > flinch over old scars, such as being told that a degree from MIT could get me > a job as a technical secretary (an honorable profession, however, not quite > what I had in mind, and besides, then how in the world could I pay back these > loans?). But, they only ache just before a storm, so just smile and tuck the > lap robe around me, and leave me rocking on the porch, reminiscing and > napping... > > L S Chabot Please remember that our culture leaves scars on men too. We should be working together to overcome them, with each other's support and respect. -- Alan S. Driscoll AT&T Bell Laboratories