[net.women] Clouding it all up

rlr@pyuxn.UUCP (Rich Rosen) (07/21/84)

> >2. Treats a woman with respect.
> If a man doesn't treat a woman with respect that man will soon 
>   find himself very lonely.  I find it hard to believe that most men
>   are this insensitive.  If you haven't been treated with respect
>   maybe it's because you don't deserve it. ( sorry couldn't help myself :+)

He won't find himself lonely as long as there are women who, along with their
male counterparts, accept and EXPECT such behavior as the status quo.

> >5. Decides that macho is not the only feelings he can have.
> Macho is not a feeling it is an attitude and a lousy one at that.
> I don't think it is as prevalent as the media and you seem to want
> to believe.

... but *I* (and apparently Trish and others) DO think it is more prevalent
than you (and others) seem to want to believe.  Perhaps by taking a look at
the real world as a whole and not just examining our pockets of enlightened
thinking we can determine just how prevalent it is.  Some may claim that such
things are not prevalent, but the claims of others who have witnessed that it
*is* tend to minimize the believability of the original claims.

> >6. Starts admitting to his friends that he is sensitive and stops acting
> >   like he's so tough.
> Maybe you've never seen this but I have from both sides.  I believe
> that most males express there feelings more openly to each other 
> than they do to another female.  This is not always true, I (probably
> others too) feel perfectly at ease expressing myself to my spouse.
> The "macho" (God I hate that word) facade is used to impress female
> more than it is used to impress men.

The "macho" attitude is intended as means of showing *everyone*, men and
women, what a real man you really are.  What it really shows is what a sheep
you really are for believing that, and how insecure you are to need to prove
such things.  The problem is not that "men are macho" or "men need to be
macho", the problem is that those beliefs are still widespread, and that even
if some don't go the complete macho route, there are still traces of it in
most men's behaviors.  How many times have the so-called enlightened anti-macho
males gone along when a peer made a sexist remark, or concurred with comments
about the nature of "real men" vs. "non-real men", or gone along with a
behavior because "women expect that from men"?
-- 
a more wretched hive of scum and villainy: not found
					Rich Rosen    pyuxn!rlr