prudence@trwrba.UUCP (08/03/84)
....... Once more the demagogues are lying with statistics, and once more shall I set the record straight, though I have long since lost faith in the power of truth against willful ignorance. The statistical lie is that women are victims of discri- mination because they earn less than men. The facts are these: In 1978, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission released the results of the most expensive, most thorough investigation of this subject ever undertaken. It confirmed that the average woman makes less than the average man -- that was never in doubt -- but it found absolutely no evidence that this was because of discrimination. Instead, the study found that the average woman takes more part-time jobs than the average man, that the average woman drops out of the job market for longer than the average man, that the average woman has less educa- tion than the average man, that the average woman is less likely to take a unionized job than the average man, and so on and so forth. In short, when women are compared with equally qualified men in competition for the same jobs, the study confirmed that the average woman will be paid at least as much as the man. She will, in fact, earn more thanks to Affirmative Action. Sexual discrimination is wrong, period.
chabot@amber.DEC (Lisa S. Chabot) (08/07/84)
Sorry, I've seen equal job, equal experience, unequal pay discrimination. Where have I seen such? Other people, or me at other jobs. It does exist. Another thing I've personally seen in another job (another place) was all the old boys were indeed boys. When they started the project it was going to be rough and tough and no girls needed, when they got a foothold technically and in terms of respect of the hospital administration, then there was room. At the bottom. Probably such a upward-limited position is not *supposed* to attract men, who are supposed to aggressive. L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA USFail: DEC, MR03-1/K20, 2 Iron Way, Marlborough, MA 01752
smb@ulysses.UUCP (Steven Bellovin) (08/07/84)
I have to discount Lisa's stories, because they're anecdotal (as opposed to statistically significant). But I've seen *many* Labor Department studies that back her up -- discrimination does exist, even after one corrects for education, experience, interrupted careers, etc. In fact, there was one that appeared within the last year. One that I saw about 5 years ago was restricted to scientists and engineers. Guess what -- same effect. Now, the magnitude of the salary gap is certainly due to many factors other than discrimination, though I suspect that most of them -- sex-stereotyped jobs, lack of math/science background by women, etc. -- can be attributed to prevailing sexist attitudes. But don't kid yourself -- equal pay for equal work may be the law, but it's sure not reality.
phil@amd.UUCP (Phil Ngai) (08/08/84)
While we're on the subject of discrimination, I heard the claim that Bell Labs/ATT was very good about raising the consciousness of its employees, so much so that many of them forget the "real world" isn't like Bell Labs. This was from a couple of Bell Labs employees. -- Phil Ngai (408) 982-6554 UUCPnet: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra,intelca}!amd!phil ARPAnet: amd!phil@decwrl.ARPA
annej@hammer.UUCP (Anne Jacko) (08/08/84)
I would guess that your statements are sound, as far as they go. I feel a pertinent question to ask when citing the different job history of men and women is "Why?" Do women take non-unionized jobs because they don't like unions? Do they work part-time because they don't want to work full-time? For some women, the answer may be yes. But I would guess that most of these women end up in different sorts of jobs due to lack of opportunity for the better-paying, higher-status jobs mostly held my men. And professions that are traditionally female bring in less money than professions that are traditionally male, even when the skill and education level is similar. Examples: grade school teachers vs. junior bank officers; nurses vs. engineers. Sexism isn't just a factor when you have a man and a woman doing exactly the same job and the woman is paid less. It is much more subtle (and consequently more insidious) than that. Anne Jacko, Tektronix