dls@hocse.UUCP (10/12/84)
CC: skran REFERENCE: <10400011@acf4.UUCP>, <10400012@acf4.UUCP>, <532@rayssd.UUCP> Bravo, indeed, new things are called for. Heather Emanual in her statement on the New Bedford incident suggests that men "believe" women as a default when they say no. This will keep the man out of trouble, but I suggest that it is not a practical course of action for men. My experience, and that of many men I have talked with, is that women(IN GENERAL-if you are the exception, keep the flames cool) are hard-wired to say no with little regard for what they actually mean. My sister usually explains it this way: "No has a thousand meanings, including No, never with you, you turkey! No, brush your teeth. No, I need to get the diaphraghm. No, let me think about it for a few minutes. No, I don't know you well enough. Etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum The result of this pernicious cultural conditioning that women are never to encourage men is that frequently women DO say NO when they mean YES or MAYBE. About the age of 15 most men pick up on this, and the lesson sticks. Women seem to WANT persistance, dragon killing, acts that indicate the man is "really interested." What they say is to a first order not what they mean. I wish that the revolution was over, that women said what they meant, and men respected their wishes. Alas, it has hardly gotten started. PS: Just to make sure the slow witted out there understand -- I am not talking about rape, the New Bedford incident, and I am NOT saying that men should just push on ahead without regard to what women say. I am saying men have a significant, real problem that many women may not fully appreciate.
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (10/13/84)
Women often don't mean `no' when they say `no'? And when it comes to sex, they are hard-wired to say `no'? This is news to me... What a crock! I've had an active, intersting, and varied sex-life, and I've never--repeat--never pressed for sex after a woman has said ``no''. Of course, part of this is because I don't like playing cat-and-mouse games, and feel that if a woman is going to try and play them with me she deserves what she asks for--and deserves to not get what she says she doesn't want. Honesty has many virtues. * * * * * He: ``Loan me 50 bucks, will ya?'' She: ``No.'' He: ``Aw, cm'on. I need it real bad.'' She: ``No.'' He: ``I'll be real grateful. And I'll even try to pay you back!'' She: ``I'll think about it.'' He: ``I'll hold my breath and turn blue if you don't.'' She: ``Oh, all right.'' -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall