merrill@rex.DEC (12/10/84)
I am a father with twin daughters aged 14. Neither they nor I are ready to talk about these things but I would like to know what advice to give them when they are ready for it! Many many years ago the standard advice was to 1) be firm in saying "no", 2) get away, 3) scream, 4) "lay back and enjoy it" when all else fails. #4 was instead of fighting physically on the assumption that the woman could not defeat the man and would only agravate physical damage. For the sake of argument lets assume circumstances that make escape unlikely.
ariels@orca.UUCP (12/11/84)
>I am a father with twin daughters aged 14. Neither they nor I are ready to >talk about these things but I would like to know what advice to give them >when they are ready for it! Many many years ago the standard advice was to >1) be firm in saying "no", 2) get away, 3) scream, 4) "lay back and enjoy it" >when all else fails. #4 was instead of fighting physically on the assumption >that the woman could not defeat the man and would only agravate physical damage. >For the sake of argument lets assume circumstances that make escape unlikely. IT'S TIME NOW!! They are both old enough to be raped at this point. If you can't talk to them, get your wife to, or your sister (their aunt), ar any other woman who you feel has a good outlook on the right to her own body. I would send them to a GOOD self defense class, one run by Chimera, or another women's group. These classes don't teach a martial art, per se, though they do cover a few techniques. These classes teach a woman how to stand up to an attacker before he becomes an attacker, how to say NO! like you mean it. They also teach how to stay out of situations where attacks might occur. There have been studies that show that a woman who fights back (given not overweening odds, like a gun) may sustain a few bruises, but gets away more often than one who just who gives up. I don't have any substantiation about this, but I'd sure feel better about myself knowing I did all I could before I gave in. There's another point. If a woman IS raped she should remember to repeat to herself that it ISN'T HER FAULT. That no matter what is happening, she DIDN'T bring it on herself, she ISN'T a slut, she WASN'T ASKING FOR IT!!!! Much of the psychological reaction to such a violation of self is the guilt and self-blame that occurs. Your child can minimize this by realizing that all that happened to her was the result of some man's domination practices, and none of her fault or responsibility. I place a lot of credence on the "Don't get scared, get angry" philosophy of rape prevention. A woman has a right to her own body, and to go where she chooses (within sanity, walking alone in the worst part of town between 10:00 pm and when the bars get out is kinda dumb), and the woman who believes this, or at least appears to believe it, and who asserts her rights, will be much better able to deal with both attacks and random hoots and hollars on the street. There is no such thing as enjoying a rape. The "lie back and enjoy it" line is an insult to the rape victim. The best a rape victim can do is concentrate on survival, and on keeping her head together about who is to blame (as discussed above). A little self confidence can turn a potential attack into a scary but non-dangerous situation. This is getting way too long. If you love your daughters (which I'm sure you do, or you wouldn't be asking such a question), get them to a rape-prevention/self-defense course. Don't go to the 3-hour seminars given by the local police station. These just perpetuate the myth that a woman must stay at home with the doors locked, or be in the constant protection of a man (haven't they ever heard of date rape?). Call the local women's center, shelter for battered women, or rape-crisis center for a referal to a respected (by women who don't buy into the aforementioned myth) self-defense course. Most cities of any size have such a class available. It may mean dealing with a few radical feminists, but they'll respect you for trying to protect your daughters, and later your daughters will thank you for pointing them on the road to self-confidence and strength. Ariel (If you act tough, you don't usually have to be tough) Shattan ..!tektronix!orca!ariels
zubbie@wlcrjs.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (12/11/84)
#4 Lay back and enjoy it. This line had to be thought up by some half-witted male (not necessarily the author of the article) who has obviously : 1) only a males sexist point of view; ie since rape involves sex all women enjoy sex qed enjoy it. 2) No respect for the person of any woman and probably not much repsect for him self either. I use him and he because i doubt any woman would even have put that statement on the net in jest or honest inquirey. flame away if you must. Jeanette L. Zobjeck ihnp4!wlcrjs!zubbie
marie@harvard.ARPA (Marie Desjardins) (12/11/84)
> > IT'S TIME NOW!! They are both old enough to be raped at this point. > First of all, you make it sound like a privilege! (I realize this was wholly unintentional; it's just the way the phrasing came across.) Second of all, according to the newspapers, a child 4 years old (or less!) is "old enough to be raped". I agree -- send your children to self-defense classes. It never hurts to know karate or judo. Marie desJardins marie@harvard
mlj@lanl.ARPA (12/12/84)
> I am a father with twin daughters aged 14. Neither they nor I are ready to > talk about these things but I would like to know what advice to give them > when they are ready for it! Many many years ago the standard advice was to > 1) be firm in saying "no", 2) get away, 3) scream, 4) "lay back and enjoy it" > when all else fails. #4 was instead of fighting physically on the assumption > that the woman could not defeat the man and would only agravate physical damage. When I was in college, a state policeman gave a couple talks/demonstrations on rape, and what to do if attacked. The demonstrations showed how defensive weapons--knives, guns, etc. could be easily used against the victim, and how even mace didn't slow an attacker down--it just made him madder. The women were advised to use their heads--talk to the attacker, try to buy some time. . . Do things that might gross him out, like urinate, defecate, vomit. That may stop him. The most surprising tactic was to pretend to give in, and "pet" him--get a good hold and SQUEEZE LIKE HELL, rendering him useless and so wrapped in pain that the victim can get away. In that condition, he won't be going far, so policemen have a good chance of finding him. Marie-Louise Los Alamos Nat'l Lab
jss@brunix.UUCP (Judith Schrier) (12/15/84)
Ariel Shattan says "Don't go to the 3-hour seminars given by the local police station. These just perpetuate the myth that a woman must stay at home with the doors locked, or be in the constant protection of a man..." I attended such a seminar for home owners, which included a marvelous film, aimed at the elderly, but with lots of genuine good advise on how to deal with someone who grabs you from behind (grab for the balls), attacks from in front with a knife (go for the eyeballs), or confronts you with a gun (give in). In the film, a policeman/lecturer was speaking to a group of the elderly, and brought individuals up from the audience, showing them how to defend themselves as he "attacked" them. judith brunix!jss