mom@sftri.UUCP (M.Modig) (12/20/84)
<Bleat? Bleat! BBLLEEAATT!!!> L. S. Chabot writes: > To all who complain about the use of "most men" or "men" > when somebody says something derogatory: go soak your head > (in a pig, if that's what you like). Complain if you like, > I don't care a bit, Ok, I will complain. It's too bad if you don't care, but I do care. > ....................and Alan and others of his ilk, don't go > around bleating that so many of us women don't stand up to > defend you. No problem. I'll have a go defending myself without help from women (all or some, it doesn't matter). [Perhaps "any" would be the best usage here -ed.] Waiting around for you to do it would obviously just be a waste of both your time and mine. > ..............Because consider the nonsense that we've all > have had to put up with lately in the area of derogatory > generalities: > > In net.singles, biannually: why are women attracted to > jerks. At best this is qualified as why do they seem to be > attracted to jerks. It's very rarely phrased even as a > question such as: is it true that you're attracted to jerks? I don't see that phrasing a belief that is already held as a question helps any. Yeah, this is a problem. I suspect this sort of thing stems from the feelings that many guys I've talked to have along the lines of "Gee, she wants to go out with him? What a jerk! I'M a better guy than he is, so how come nobody wants to go out with me? <sob>". From this, it's a short jump to the erroneous conclusion that all women are attracted to jerks. A lot of movies and TV shows I have seen tend to reinforce this belief, too. > > Even if "women" were qualified by "most", as Jeff W says, is > this supposed to make me feel better? You? Ah, now you know how I feel when people in this newsgroup start talking about men being assholes and wanting to control everything, etc., etc. How come my gripe isn't legit (which this article seems to be telling me) and yours is??? > > In net.singles, currently: the breast size debate. And the > mention, perhaps humorously, that small-breasted women are > unable to properly nourish babies. Are we assuming that > breast-size is how we distinguish women from men: women have > large breasts because it's better for nourishing babies, > while men don't have large breasts because it's not > necessary that they nourish babies? (And therefore women's > breasts tend to grow larger, by natural selection.) And just > what's small? And is this "most" or "all"? It really > doesn't matter: it's a completely preposterous hypothesis. If it's so preposterous, why are you wasting time on it? Because it makes you angry and upset, that's why. A bad way to put a stop to this sort of thing is not to sit silently by and let it go-- this can be construed as approval; instead, let people now when you have a gripe. > > In net.women: Women who think net.women.only could be > properly used by women are man-haters. Hey, this even has > some sort of basis--a private letter received by someone > from someone else claiming to be a man-hater. "Some women", > therefore, is properly qualified. Or rather, we should say > "some woman." Ah, but this is a view held only by "some" men. > > Women buy according to what they see in ads, while men buy > according to what is necessary. Oops, never saw this one. Besides, it's not true. I want to get a VCR; my fiancee wants to get a couch so we won't have to sit on the floor in our living room. She also insisted we go order a bed so we won't have to sleep on the floor after we're married. Sheesh! Some people are SSSOOOO practical. > > The above topics never generated as much useless heat about > an explicit or implicit "most" or "all" qualifier. The > reasonable people and the wild flamers (like me) of all > sexes and species who chose to argue on either side didn't > waste time screaming they'd been wounded. Not really true in the case of the argument about breast size. I have seen several articles questioning the taste and/or use of deciding such an issue. > What's the > difference between > > Women are stupid (or masochistic)(because they date jerks) > > and Men are assholes > Hmmmm, judgement time. OK, I'm thinking.....can I get back to you on this? I will say I'd probably rather be stupid instead of masochistic or being an asshole, but since you really have no choice as to which stereotype you are labelled with here, I suppose assuming I have a choice isn't fair either. Gee, this really is a toughie.... I guess there really is no difference. Is that right? > Why does the latter attract so many complaints: "Well, I'm > not an asshole and I resent that you say I am"? Yes, it got > some discussion too, but why don't the questions like the > former get complaints: "Well, I'm not a stupid and I resent > you saying my boyfriend's a jerk"? Come on, this is an > equal opportunity net: women can be whiners er winners too. So? I'm waiting...I have complained both here and thru private mail about such statements about men. I saw something I didn't like and I said something about it. If anyone else out there sees something they don't like, they should call the poster on it. Another thing, you don't seem to think that women should spring to the defense of men when the net gets blasted with another article about how men are going to bomb us back to the Stone Age, men are heavily into dominance, etc. (You called an article asking why women don't do this bleating, I believe). Ok then, so why do you seem to expect everybody to rise to the defense of women everywhere so greviously wronged by some statement about women preferring to go out with jerks, or insulted by a breast preferance survey? Come on! Whenever someone makes an inaccurate statement about a group, men or women, people should call them on it. And there have been complaints and reactions to some of the things you mentioned above. In addition to the example of the breast survey, every time someone gets on the net and bitterly recounts the relationship that just broke up, ending with some statement along the lines of "all {men|women} deserve to burn in hell, they're rotten, mean, nasty, etc.", there are a variety of reactions. I have yet to see one such article go by without at least someone saying that that last generalisation isn't true. Besides, I know all women aren't attracted to jerks. One of my best friends, a really nice guy, got so much attention from women he could barely handle it. He got married to someone a while back and they're very happy; I wish them well, they deserve it. > Instead of complaining about not liking derogatory thing > said, why don't you propose a counter-argument. Good advice. Why don't you try practicing what you preach? Mark Modig ..ihnp4!sftri!mom