chabot@amber.DEC (l s chabot) (12/18/84)
To all who complain about the use of "most men" or "men" when somebody says something derogatory: go soak your head (in a pig, if that's what you like). Complain if you like, I don't care a bit, and Alan and others of his ilk, don't go around bleating that so many of us women don't stand up to defend you. Because consider the nonsense that we've all have had to put up with lately in the area of derogatory generalities: In net.singles, biannually: why are women attracted to jerks. At best this is qualified as why do they seem to be attracted to jerks. It's very rarely phrased even as a question such as: is it true that you're attracted to jerks? Even if "women" were qualified by "most", as Jeff W says, is this supposed to make me feel better? You? In net.singles, currently: the breast size debate. And the mention, perhaps humorously, that small-breasted women are unable to properly nourish babies. Are we assuming that breast-size is how we distinguish women from men: women have large breasts because it's better for nourishing babies, while men don't have large breasts because it's not necessary that they nourish babies? (And therefore women's breasts tend to grow larger, by natural selection.) And just what's small? And is this "most" or "all"? It really doesn't matter: it's a completely preposterous hypothesis. In net.women: Women who think net.women.only could be properly used by women are man-haters. Hey, this even has some sort of basis--a private letter received by someone from someone else claiming to be a man-hater. "Some women", therefore, is properly qualified. Or rather, we should say "some woman." Women buy according to what they see in ads, while men buy according to what is necessary. The above topics never generated as much useless heat about an explicit or implicit "most" or "all" qualifier. The reasonable people and the wild flamers (like me) of all sexes and species who chose to argue on either side didn't waste time screaming they'd been wounded. What's the difference between Women are stupid (or masochistic)(because they date jerks) and Men are assholes Why does the latter attract so many complaints: "Well, I'm not an asshole and I resent that you say I am"? Yes, it got some discussion too, but why don't the questions like the former get complaints: "Well, I'm not a stupid and I resent you saying my boyfriend's a jerk"? Come on, this is an equal opportunity net: women can be whiners er winners too. Instead of complaining about not liking derogatory thing said, why don't you propose a counter-argument. L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) (12/21/84)
> To all who complain about the use of "most men" or "men" when somebody says > something derogatory: go soak your head (in a pig, if that's what you like). > Complain if you like, I don't care a bit, and Alan and others of his ilk, don't > go around bleating that so many of us women don't stand up to defend you. > . . . . > > L S Chabot I'm saddened by your attitude, Lisa, because I think that it is things such as this that have helped set feminism back; all it does is invite a backlash from a group of people who are crucial to the movement: the men who are in the process of painfully renouncing male supremacy. (As a side note, I think it also contributes to the ``shrillness'' that repells some women I know from calling themselves ``feminists''.) I doubt that you measure yourself by the same standards as those who post the ``why do women date jerks'' or ``why do feminist women hate men'' questions, so why claim the right to behave like them? I've not been silent on either of these abuses, and I chose not to be silent on the ``why do men claim the right to rape'' either (knowing that I'd catch some flak from other feminists, and perhaps some unwanted support from male supremists). In all cases it was the dangerous ``us against them'' attitude that caused me to respond. Let's be constructive. Hostility and lack of respect for each other is the enemy. -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall