jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (12/18/84)
Sunny, didn't anyone ever tell you that hell (especially a flaming one) is an invention of the "hairy beast" you claim to hate? (Religious flames to God, please.) So please stop damning various and sundry people who you have never met to hell and burning. It makes you out a hypocrite and sounds ridiculous to boot. And it doesn't help the situation which you deplore. Not one bit. Jeff Winslow
sunny@sun.uucp (12/20/84)
> Sunny, didn't anyone ever tell you that hell (especially a flaming one) > is an invention of the "hairy beast" you claim to hate? (Religious flames > to God, please.) So please stop damning various and sundry people who > you have never met to hell and burning. It makes you out a hypocrite and > sounds ridiculous to boot. > > And it doesn't help the situation which you deplore. Not one bit. > > Jeff Winslow If that's the most criticism you can offer on the message in my "Fidelity" article, then I'm very pleased, Jeff. You've totally avoided dealing with the overall point of the article, and have misdirected your attack to deal with my style instead. How about responding to the content instead? How do you feel about those amongst us who would blow us all to smithereens? about nuclear winter? about the dominance evidenced by ***> SOME <*** males? How has your response "help[ed] the situation which [I] deplore"? Deal with the issues, Jeff. Sunny -- {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny
jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) (12/21/84)
A la Toby, the relevant quote from me follows at the end... > If that's the most criticism you can offer on the message in my "Fidelity" > article, then I'm very pleased, Jeff. You've totally avoided dealing with > the overall point of the article, and have misdirected your attack to deal > with my style instead. How about responding to the content instead? How do > you feel about those amongst us who would blow us all to smithereens? about > nuclear winter? about the dominance evidenced by ***> SOME <*** males? How > has your response "help[ed] the situation which [I] deplore"? Deal with the > issues, Jeff. [Sunny] That is the most criticism which I *wished* to offer. I *can* offer a great deal more, however, and since you asked for it, here it is (in part :-)). As near as I can tell, the point of your article (and others) is that men (oh, pardon me, *some* men) and, in particular, male dominance are the cause of all the worst problems in the world, a position so preposterous I don't feel it needs to be replied to. You may call this avoidance or misdirection if it pleases you. And probably it does please you, since that makes it sound like you're so brilliant I don't dare contradict you, or that somehow I don't know what I'm doing. (Who's playing the dominance game now?) (We *both* are, that's who.) However, neither is appropriate. The threat of nuclear destruction is the combination of tribal fears and rivalries deeply rooted in *human* nature with an extreme product of human ingenuity - one which happens to be capable of immense destruction. I don't like it, but I feel quite helpless to affect it. My helplessness is reflected in my (relative) silence in the matter, just as the helplessness which you seem to feel is reflected in your (it seems to me) naive and hysterical accusations against male dominance and its reflection in Western culture. I believe you attack these mainly because you see yourself as separate from them. My comment on the concept of hell was *not* an attack on your style, rather it was an attempt to show you as an active and willing user of (at least one of) these reflections, contradicting yourself by doing so. And therefore, of course, casting doubt on the validity of your accusations. Unless provoked, I try to sum up my feelings in a short article, rather than ramble on for screenful after screenful. I apologize if the result sometimes turns out to be rather cryptic. At least Sunny didn't damn me to hell... :-) Jeff Winslow >> Sunny, didn't anyone ever tell you that hell (especially a flaming one) >> is an invention of the "hairy beast" you claim to hate? (Religious flames >> to God, please.) So please stop damning various and sundry people who >> you have never met to hell and burning. It makes you out a hypocrite and >> sounds ridiculous to boot. >> >> And it doesn't help the situation which you deplore. Not one bit. >> >> Jeff Winslow