tracy@hcrvx1.UUCP (Tracy Tims) (12/13/84)
If you (a man) are walking alone at night (or with other men)
and see a woman walking alone toward you, then cross the street
and let her walk in peace.
I'd rather smile at her when I pass. That way she'll have a tremendous
feeling of relief, rather than feeling that all men are either rapists or
simply avoiding her. Really, this is a nonsensical suggestion. Why don't
I also cross the street for members of visible ethnic groups, who might fear
racial harassment? While I am at it I could also cross the street for
people I suspect are deeply religious as they could be offended by the air
of atheism about me.
Also, speaking of anger, here is a time when anger comes in handy.
If you look and feel angry as you pass people on the street. . .
Everyone will think you are a nasty creep and you'll get ulcers.
. . .they are less likely to annoy you (as observed by me walking in
New York). Anger should not be given up lightly by women. It works
for them at least as often as it works against them.
Hey! I like your either/or approach to problem solving. Dogs. What about
dogs? Since some dogs are likely to bite people we should kill all dogs!
Seriously: have you never thought of acting *appropriately* rather than
picking one behaviour? If you always look angry you are going to help create
a nasty place to live. Stay off my street, please. If you teach yourself
how to not look like a victim and how to look confident you may discover
similar results without putting the world off. Looking angry should be
reserved for when you really need it.
Tracy Tims {linus,allegra,decvax}!watmath!...
Human Computing Resources Corporation {lbl-csa,ihnp4,utzoo}!...
Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 416 922-1937 ...hcr!hcrvax!tracysaquigley@watmath.UUCP (Sophie Quigley) (12/13/84)
> > If you (a man) are walking alone at night (or with other men) > and see a woman walking alone toward you, then cross the street > and let her walk in peace. > > I'd rather smile at her when I pass. That way she'll have a tremendous > feeling of relief, rather than feeling that all men are either rapists or > simply avoiding her. Really, this is a nonsensical suggestion. Why don't > I also cross the street for members of visible ethnic groups, who might fear > racial harassment? While I am at it I could also cross the street for > people I suspect are deeply religious as they could be offended by the air > of atheism about me. > I personnally prefer men who ignore me to men who smile at me when I am in a situation where I feel threatened. When men smile, I always wonder whether it is a trick or not. Call me paranoid if you wish, but I am certainly not the only paranoid around, and in certain cases, it is better to be paranoid than dead. If you think your solution is a good idea, I beg of you to ask other women what they think of it. I doubt very much that most will agree with you. The difference between women and members of other minorities (I assume you are talking about men now) is that women in general are weaker than men, in worse shape than them, and usually wear more constrictive clothes, all of which means that they don't stand as much a chance of winning a physical fight against a man than another man would. Also unlike men, women have more to fear from other men: while homosexual rape does exist, and people of both sexes can get just as easily tortured, most assaults against men are non-sexual. > Also, speaking of anger, here is a time when anger comes in handy. > If you look and feel angry as you pass people on the street. . . > > Everyone will think you are a nasty creep and you'll get ulcers. That's right, and I (and other women) resent this very much, and are very angried by this, but a lot of us would rather have ulcers than be raped. > > . . .they are less likely to annoy you (as observed by me walking in > New York). Anger should not be given up lightly by women. It works > for them at least as often as it works against them. > > Hey! I like your either/or approach to problem solving. Dogs. What about > dogs? Since some dogs are likely to bite people we should kill all dogs! > Seriously: have you never thought of acting *appropriately* rather than > picking one behaviour? If you always look angry you are going to help create > a nasty place to live. Stay off my street, please. If you teach yourself > how to not look like a victim and how to look confident you may discover > similar results without putting the world off. Looking angry should be > reserved for when you really need it. > The problem with your suggestion, is that often by the time you figure out what an "appropriate" behaviour is, it's too late. > Tracy Tims {linus,allegra,decvax}!watmath!... > Human Computing Resources Corporation {lbl-csa,ihnp4,utzoo}!... > Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 416 922-1937 ...hcr!hcrvax!tracy
chabot@amber.DEC (l s chabot) (12/17/84)
Tracy Tims == > > If you teach yourself how to not look like a victim and how to look confident > you may discover similar results without putting the world off. Yes, all you senior citizens out there, and you people with physical handicaps, and probably all you women, too (or at least many of you): stop looking like victims! Like, try wearing a gorilla suit or something. An attractive one, so you don't put the world off (horrors! appear unattractive out of doors!). Some people can't help the fact that they looking like victims to predators. Just great advice, Tracy, just great. L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA
tracy@hcrvx1.UUCP (Tracy Tims) (12/24/84)
Tracy (me):
If you teach yourself how to not look like a victim and how to
look confident you may discover similar results without putting
the world off.
L S Chabot:
Yes, all you senior citizens out there, and you people with physical
handicaps, and probably all you women, too (or at least many of you):
stop looking like victims! Like, try wearing a gorilla suit or
something. An attractive one, so you don't put the world off
(horrors! appear unattractive out of doors!).
Tracy (me again):
Are you claiming that an angry looking handicapped person is less
likely to be attacked than a confident looking one? I am not sure I believe
it. This (by the way) is the crux of the argument.
Why do you "argue" by non sequitur and ridicule so frequently? Why are
you suggesting a gorilla suit? How is that relevant? Why are you suggesting
(vaguely) that I find it unacceptable for people to appear unattractive out of
doors? I seem to recall that my posting implied that I didn't like people
being hostile. I said nothing about attractiveness. Why do you invent
pointless and insulting ideas and put them in the mouths of other people?
I don't like thoughtless hostility and I don't like yours. You don't
even know me, and you are treating me unfairly. The fact that you may have
axes to grind and have felt injustice does not give you license to do this.
(And I can hear you saying: "So what! *I* get treated unfairly." Sigh.)
Tracy Tims (Practicing Peoplist) {linus,allegra,decvax}!watmath!...
Human Computing Resources Corporation {ihnp4,utzoo}!...
Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 416 922-1937 ...hcr!hcrvax!tracymat@hou4b.UUCP (Mark Terribile) (12/28/84)
In all of the whole human race, Mrs. Lovett,
There are two kinds of men and only two.
There's the one staying put in his proper place
And the one with his foot in the other one's face!
-from Sweeny Todd
There are two types of people --
Those who divide the world into two types of people
And those who don't.
Let us call those who ``stay put in their proper place'' type 1.
Let us call those ``with his foot in the other one's face'' type 2.
It is clear that in various situations, people take on one role or another
more strongly. Let's deal with the person who is basically type 1, afraid
of people whose lifestyle and career are strongly type 2 (victim and
victimizer, if you like)
It seems to me that we have a bunch of type 1 people (victims) afraid of type 2
people (victimizers). What do they do? Ask that other victims (type 1 people)
not scare them.
I'm looking for my quarter.
Where did you lose it?
Upstairs.
Then why are you looking down here?
The light's better!
The solution, if there is one, lies in making type 2 behavior unprofitable.
This may include being able to counterattack. There are liquor stores with an
armored chamber with gunports and bulletproof glass to make armed robbery
attempts unprofitable. There is a legal system which is supposed to punish
offenders. There are people who know how to disable attackers with one swift
blow, and kill them quickly. (From ``The Authorized biography of James Bond'',
on how to impress people: ``or tell them: `I only know eight ways to kill a
man with a single blow' '')
We can also imprison or incapacitate (or kill) those who have demonstrated that
their mode of life is type 2. Make it impossible for the victimizer to pursue
his habits, or make it more costly than he is willing to bear.
But understand the frustration of a type 1 person (a victim) who is now being
blamed for the mental anguish brought on by a type 2 person.
I'm a victim. You're a victim. So why the hell are you blaming ME!
He did it, and I'd just as like to kill him as you would like to be
free of him!
Of COURSE people are going to be unhappy about your request to make you feel
at ease!
--
from Mole End Mark Terribile
(scrape .. dig ) hou4b!mat
,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.