zubbie@wlcrjs.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (01/08/85)
Recently , while driving to work, I heard a commercial for Working Woman Magazine which was presented in a very effective way, I thought, by the publisher, who is a woman, of the magazine. Immedeately after the message was delivered but still a part of the ad tape a male voice began affirming the importance of this publication to all working women. I wonder if the advertising exec who thought that up really believed he/she/it was bolstering the image of the ad and of the magazine. After all how many men really understand the needs, problems and outlooks of women in the business/working world? Methinks the idea that we, as women, need a man to help us make up our minds as to the importance of things should be one of the first items we need to delete from the world mind as we try to gain the place which is rightfully ours as people and individuals. Jeanette L. Zobjeck =============================================================================== From the mostly vacant environment of Jeanette L. Zobjeck (ihnp4!wlcrjs!zubbie) All opinions expressed may not even be my own. ===============================================================================
kevyn@watarts.UUCP (KCT) (01/09/85)
> Recently , while driving to work, I heard a commercial for Working Woman > Magazine which was presented in a very effective way, I thought, by the > publisher, who is a woman, of the magazine. Immedeately after the message > was delivered but still a part of the ad tape a male voice began affirming > the importance of this publication to all working women. > Methinks the idea that we, as women, need a man to help us make up our > minds as to the importance of things should be one of the first items > we need to delete from the world mind as we try to gain the place > which is rightfully ours as people and individuals. > > Jeanette L. Zobjeck Come on now! I hardly think that "male voices in female commercials" are something to get so uppity about. Quit the "women of the world, unite!" stuff. I agree that discrimination in ANY form, against men OR women, is unacceptable. There is no need, though for your type of reaction, which ranges on paranoia. Kevyn Collins-Thompson University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, CANADA !! ....{allegra|clyde|utzoo|ihnp4|decvax}!watmath!watarts!kevyn
tracy@hcrvx1.UUCP (Tracy Tims) (01/09/85)
...a male voice began affirming the importance of this
publication to all working women.
...the idea that we, as women, need a man to help us make up our
minds ... should be one of the first items we need to delete
from the world mind as we try to gain the place which is
rightfully ours as people and individuals.
Jeanette L. Zobjeck
Come on now! I hardly think that "male voices in female commercials"
are something to get so uppity about. Quit the "women of the world,
unite!" stuff. I agree that discrimination in ANY form, against men
OR women, is unacceptable. There is no need, though for your type of
reaction, which ranges on paranoia.
Kevyn Collins-Thompson
I think it's interesting that you are criticizing something ("male voices in
female commercials") that wasn't really being discussed. The real issue
("lack of female credibility") is more cogent. Even if you *were* talking
about what JLZ was talking about, you'd have to offer some evidence that
her perceptions are not true to life before you could claim she was being
paranoid. Otherwise you're just blowing wind.
Her desire to increase people's belief in the competence of women (for that
is what it is, in another guise) strikes me as a worthy goal, and not a
pointless rallying point for a power group. Your use of the term "uppity"
is insulting and a put down, at best, and serves as an excellent example of
what she is talking about. (Dismissal of a person's beliefs for reasons
which have nothing to do with the validity of the beliefs.)
Tracy Tims {linus,allegra,decvax}!watmath!...
Human Computing Resources Corporation {ihnp4,utzoo}!...
Toronto, Ontario, Canada. 416 922-1937 ...hcr!hcrvx1!tracykevyn@watarts.UUCP (KCT) (01/11/85)
> > Recently , while driving to work, I heard a commercial for Working Woman > > Magazine which was presented in a very effective way, I thought, by the > > publisher, who is a woman, of the magazine. Immedeately after the message > > was delivered but still a part of the ad tape a male voice began affirming > > the importance of this publication to all working women. > > > Methinks the idea that we, as women, need a man to help us make up our > > minds as to the importance of things should be one of the first items > > we need to delete from the world mind as we try to gain the place > > which is rightfully ours as people and individuals. > > > > Jeanette L. Zobjeck > > Come on now! I hardly think that "male voices in female commercials" > are something to get so uppity about. Quit the "women of the world, unite!" > stuff. I agree that discrimination in ANY form, against men OR women, is > unacceptable. There is no need, though for your type of reaction, which > ranges on paranoia. > > > Kevyn Collins-Thompson University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, CANADA !! > ....{allegra|clyde|utzoo|ihnp4|decvax}!watmath!watarts!kevyn > > > As a comment to my response to Jeanette L. Zobjeck's posting about "Male Voices in Commercials": I have been flamed heavily already for this article. As I pointed out in a response to one of these letters, my article was meant initially as a private reply to Ms. Zobjeck. Since attempts by postnews were unsuccessful at the destination site, I finally >sigh< decided to post it. This was indeed a Bad Decision, and I anticipated the very strong replies. I do not, though, apologize for what I said to Ms. Zobjeck. I certainly do not regard "Male Voices in 'Female' Commercials" (quotes mine) to be discriminative against women. I certainly do regard Ms. Zobjeck's posting, however, to be somewhat unfair to men. A male voice had a right to speak in this commercial just as much as a female voice, if true "equality" is to be assumed. I do not know if the advertising executive, or whoever is responsible for the creation of the commercial, had an ulterior motive for having a man's voice at the end of the commercial. Ms. Zobjeck, ironically, assumed that this creator was a man! Is it still "discrimination" if this creator turns out instead to be a woman? Thus, my reply to the original author, which, I admit, was harsh. I do not pretend to speak for anyone except myself in these matters. I was NOT trying to tell people what they should and not discuss in this or any newsgroup, and I was NOT implying that I dislike reading discussions in net.women.only. I will quit reading the newsgroup when I do. Again, I apologize for this mess; I believe, though, that Ms. Zobjeck's "delete" approach to man-woman (in alphabetical order :->) mutual under- standing will always be counter-productive. Yours truly, Kevyn Collins-Thompson , University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, CANADA !! ....{allegra|clyde|utzoo|ihnp4|decvax}!watmath!watarts!kevyn
kevyn@watarts.UUCP (KCT) (01/11/85)
OOPS! She DIDN'T assume that the creator was a man... There goes
that part of my argument! Ah well...I shall make a hasty retreat into
self-imposed exile... Good-bye! Good for you, Ms. Z! Until we meet again!
"Burn me to death, then; I DESERVE to die..."
In Embarassment,
Kevyn Collins-Thompson, University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, CANADA !!
....{allegra|clyde|utzoo|ihnp4|decvax}!watmath!watarts!kevynchabot@amber.DEC (l s chabot) (01/11/85)
Kevyn Collins-Thompson == > > I hardly think that "male voices in female commercials" are something to get > so uppity about. Quit the "women of the world, unite!" stuff. I agree that > discrimination in ANY form, against men OR women, is unacceptable. There is > no need, though for your type of reaction, which ranges on paranoia. "Come on now", yourself, Kevyn: try to imagine things from someone else's point of view. If women are annoyed by the addition of a male voice for the purpose of adding authority to commercials aimed at women, respect the fact that they have a right to the opinions. Labelling such disagreements that they have as bordering on paranoia is just adding to the problem--the problem IS discrimination: in this case, it's the prejudice that women aren't sufficient to convey authority or informed opinion, it's the prejudice that women want to hear that a man says it's okay to do. Sure, if everything was equal now, probably nobody would care who spoke during commercials. But that's not the way things are, yet. Since women have been raised mostly to be quieter than men and to listen to men's opinions as being superior to their own, actually, "women of the world, unite!" is a very good thing to call out--in uniting, women can discover the equal importance of their opinions and concerns, which is a fact which when those opinions were kept quiet and subordinate before men, could not be realized. For instance: women were not given the vote by some generous men, the suffragettes had to meet and decide they want it and join with others to have the power and the numbers to bring their wants to public attention. L S Chabot UUCP: ...decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-amber!chabot ARPA: ...chabot%amber.DEC@decwrl.ARPA