srm@nsc.UUCP (Richard Mateosian) (02/24/85)
In article <5077@utzoo.UUCP> laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) writes: >Is the primary reason that Christians have given up witch >burning that they think that either there never were witches or that, if >there were, they have killed all of them off? In Gyn/Ecology by Mary Daly a clear line of evolution is shown from the burning of millions of women in Europe, through the female mutilations of the 19th Century, up to the lobotomies and shock treatments of today. In all my reading of net.women and net.books, I have never seen mention of this work. Reading this book is like reading about the holocaust--if you believe that what you are reading is true, then the only sane reaction is outrage. -- Richard Mateosian {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA
rdz@ccice5.UUCP (Robert D. Zarcone) (02/26/85)
> > In Gyn/Ecology by Mary Daly a clear line of evolution is shown from the > burning of millions of women in Europe, through the female mutilations of > the 19th Century, up to the lobotomies and shock treatments of today. > > Richard Mateosian > {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA I have never heard of this book or author, but I am interested because of what you didn't say here. MILLIONS of women were burned as witches or whatever in Europe? Female mutilations; is this like foot-binding or is there more? Are you saying lobotomies and shock treatment are used to torture (for pleasure or control) women? I really am interested in more detail. If my slightly slanted questions received affirmative answers, I would like to know what evidence (FACTS) the author gives. It seems a cover-up of this proportion would be near impossible [:-/-)]. *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (02/27/85)
> > > > In Gyn/Ecology by Mary Daly a clear line of evolution is shown from the > > burning of millions of women in Europe, through the female mutilations of > > the 19th Century, up to the lobotomies and shock treatments of today. > > > > Richard Mateosian > > {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA > > I have never heard of this book or author, but I am interested because of > what you didn't say here. MILLIONS of women were burned as witches or > whatever in Europe? Female mutilations; is this like foot-binding or is > there more? Are you saying lobotomies and shock treatment are used to > torture (for pleasure or control) women? I really am interested in more > detail. If my slightly slanted questions received affirmative answers, I > would like to know what evidence (FACTS) the author gives. It seems a > cover-up of this proportion would be near impossible [:-/-)]. > I am assuming that what is referred to here is the various means exercised by male-dominated social heirarchies to discourage or control women through the years. The Malleus Mallifactorum (sp ?), the "Hammer of Witches", is one of the most misogynous books i have ever read. It is obvious tha the authors hated and feared women and did everything in their power to keep women from having any power in society. On a modern level, it seems that psychiatrists have become the new witch-hunters. It is much easier to put women away than men, for example. For an excellent book on the subject, I suggest Dr. Phyllis Chesler's "Women and Madness". You might find it a good introduction to the subject if you object to more overtly feminist books like Daly's "Gyn/Ecology". -- jcpatilla "'Get stuffed !', the Harlequin replied ..."
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (02/27/85)
> > > > In Gyn/Ecology by Mary Daly a clear line of evolution is shown from the > > burning of millions of women in Europe, through the female mutilations of > > the 19th Century, up to the lobotomies and shock treatments of today. > > > > Richard Mateosian > > {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA > > I have never heard of this book or author, but I am interested because of > what you didn't say here. MILLIONS of women were burned as witches or > whatever in Europe? Female mutilations; is this like foot-binding or is > there more? Are you saying lobotomies and shock treatment are used to > torture (for pleasure or control) women? I really am interested in more > detail. If my slightly slanted questions received affirmative answers, I > would like to know what evidence (FACTS) the author gives. It seems a > cover-up of this proportion would be near impossible [:-/-)]. > I'll also add that by female mutilations, people usually mean foot-binding, among other things, but the primary item is the clitorectomy, the removal of a girl's clitoris to greatly reduce her future pleasure in sex (don't want them to ahve any fun. now do we ?). This is still practiced in many African and Near Eastern cultures and is probably the most pervasive type of female mutilation still extant. In some places, the girl is made to sit in a cold stream all night and the clitoris is removed in the morning (when she is more or less numb) with a piece of broken glass; in other, so-called "civilised" societies, the girl is seized out of sleep by her female relatives and the doctor slashes her while she is only half-awake and cannot even protest (she has little choice). (My sources of information come largely through my college major, which was social and cultural anthropology) -- jcpatilla "'Get stuffed !', the Harlequin replied ..."
jeff@rtech.ARPA (Jeff Lichtman) (03/04/85)
> I'll also add that by female mutilations, people usually mean foot-binding, > among other things, but the primary item is the clitorectomy, the removal > of a girl's clitoris to greatly reduce her future pleasure in sex (don't > want them to ahve any fun. now do we ?). This is still practiced in many > African and Near Eastern cultures and is probably the most pervasive type > of female mutilation still extant. > > jcpatilla > Does anyone know what reasons (excuses) such societies state for their practice of clitorectomy? I doubt that they actually claim that they do it in order to reduce the girl's future pleasure. In the U.S., large numbers of unnecessary hysterectomies have been performed under the name of "health". I'm always interested in how people justify their behavior. -- Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) aka Swazoo Koolak
ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) (03/07/85)
> > I'll also add that by female mutilations, people usually mean foot-binding, > > among other things, but the primary item is the clitorectomy, the removal > > of a girl's clitoris to greatly reduce her future pleasure in sex (don't > > want them to ahve any fun. now do we ?). This is still practiced in many > > African and Near Eastern cultures and is probably the most pervasive type > > of female mutilation still extant. > > > > jcpatilla > > > > Does anyone know what reasons (excuses) such societies state for their > practice of clitorectomy? I doubt that they actually claim that they do > it in order to reduce the girl's future pleasure. In the U.S., large > numbers of unnecessary hysterectomies have been performed under the name > of "health". I'm always interested in how people justify their behavior. > -- > Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) I have heard two excuses. The first is that it reduces the probability of adultery. Since this practice occurs in countries where the penalties for adultery are already severe (for the woman) one might think additional precautions were superfluous. However, the same culture that prescribes death for adultery is unlikely to draw the line at mutililation to prevent it. The second is not so much a justification as a defense; "This is our culture. It's none of your business." Of course, the same can be said for burning heretics or executing political prisoners. (Come to think of it, I think the same *has* been said for these practices.) "Don't argue with a fool. Ethan Vishniac Borrow his money." {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan *Anyone who wants to claim these opinions is welcome to them.*
jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (03/08/85)
> Does anyone know what reasons (excuses) such societies state for their > practice of clitorectomy? I doubt that they actually claim that they do > it in order to reduce the girl's future pleasure. In the U.S., large > numbers of unnecessary hysterectomies have been performed under the name > of "health". I'm always interested in how people justify their behavior. > -- > Jeff Lichtman at rtech (Relational Technology, Inc.) > aka Swazoo Koolak I am told that there was an article in "Ms." last year sometime, by a Eqyptian doctor who herself suffered a clitorectomy as a girl. This and the responding letters which confirm the practice are supposedly very interesting. If anyone can find these and summarize for the net, it would be greatly appreciated. jcpatilla -- jcpatilla "'Get stuffed !', the Harlequin replied ..."