gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (03/31/85)
I was having a conversation with a couple of friends of mine on the subject of
women and boyfriends. They seemed to think that most women would say that they
had a boyfriend, whether they did or didn't, because if they said they didn't
guys would think they were strange. I haven't found that to be the case in
female friends that I have -- most of them who did not have boyfriends said that
they did not and were not ashamed of it (although perhaps unhappy). They
claimed that by and large they were unable to find nice guys to have relation-
ships with.
I would like to open some discussion surrounding the following questions (direc-
ted to women, mostly, but available for comment by men).
Do you have a boyfriend?
Do you feel like you must have a boyfriend?
Did you ever say you had a boyfriend when you didn't? Why? Did you want others
to think you had one?
Do you find it difficult to meet nice guys? (apply your own definitions of nice)
Men may feel free to answer also, subsituting girl for boy when appropriate (no
flames please, you all know what I mean).
My friends were also saying that even if a woman had a boyfriend, that it didn't
necessarily mean that they wouldn't go out with other guys. They were saying
that (1) they might have boyfriends because it is convenient to have one, (2)
the relationship may not be all that serious, and (3) they might have a boy-
friend so that they wouldn't be lonely.
I'd just like to know how some of you feel about these statements.
--
... hey, we've gotta get out of this place,
there's got to be something better than this ...
Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo
gregbo%houxm.uucp@harvard.arpadisc@homxb.UUCP (04/01/85)
Jeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!! Haven't you learned anything from all this "DISCUSSION"? I don't want ANYONE calling ME a "boy". I want to be known as a MANfriend!!!!!!! And I won't accept "guyfriend" or "gentlemanfriend" either because they have bad connotations, too.... SJBerry
ellen@reed.UUCP (Ellen) (04/04/85)
> Do you have a boyfriend? > Do you feel like you must have a boyfriend? > Did you ever say you had a boyfriend when you didn't? Why? Did you want others > to think you had one? > Do you find it difficult to meet nice guys? (apply your own definitions of nice) > Greg Skinner (gregbo) No, no, yes (to get an obnoxious guy at a bus stop to stop hassling me), and no...unless your definition of "nice" equals my definition of "nice to point of warranting intimate relationship," in which case the answer is yes. I have a small but constant group of male friends, none of whom save two are what I consider really super special men, and they are both attached to motos. Actually, as I become more and more feminist, I become freed from the feeling that I "have" to have a boyfriend to be normal. I wonder whether I'll ever meet a man who is as sensitive to feminist/minority issues as I require; it becomes very difficult for me to relate to most men, as their values are so different from mine. I don't worry about it though. If I can't love men, I'll love women. Incidentally, now that I am more trained as a fighter, I would change that one "yes" to a "no." There are more direct ways to end harassment than evasive references to mythical boyfriends. I think men are terrific friends. They enjoy being treated as "one of the girls" because they always wanted to know what women talked about among themselves anyway. I am glad I have male friends, but the longer I'm single, the less I want to change. Male lovers tend to be very possessive and trying. I spend most of my time explaining why I look at things differently. I don't have that problem with my women friends. So much less time wasted in translation! I suppose this will probably end up on the far left side of Greg's spectrum. Oh well...seems normal enough to me :-> Grin and ignore it. Ellen
annab@azure.UUCP (A Beaver) (04/07/85)
> Do you have a boyfriend?
I realize that the whole topic of girl/boy has been beaten around a
bit in the last month or so. So it really surprised me to see such
a ridiculous question. 'I' haven't had a BOYfriend for YEARS.
My 16 year old daughter has a 'boyfriend'.
Unless of course, you were talking about just being able to get along
with BOYS. My son, Mike, has a friend who calls up, from time to time,
to talk with me and I consider him my friend. (he's 14 and learning
about computers)
Now, if the question was supposed to read "Do you have a steady MALE
friend?" For me, the answer is yes. At the point where I was just about
ready to give up on the males of the species as being worthless except
for reproduction, (and a bit of close contact from time to time) my
friend, Bill, started spending more time with me. (he felt the same way
about women) We were lucky to find out that we had SO much in common. :-)
I am quite pleased to say that my friend, Bill, is anything BUT a BOY. (-:
~l
/l
/5l\
/ 0l \
Annadiana Beaver / 5 l \
A Beaver@Tektronix /____l___\
,,,,\__,,,_/,,,,
"I'd rather be sailing" wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwgregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) (04/07/85)
Just a brief summary of the episodes so far:
The unanimous answer to the question "Did you ever say that you had a boyfriend
when you didn't" was yes. The reasons given were also unanimous -- to get some
guy who was trying to make a move on them to leave them alone. While this was
not exactly the response I was looking for, it's significant enough to warrant
its own discussion.
My co-workers conversation seemed to be along the lines of "women say that they
have boyfriends so that the guys (or other women) who are asking don't think
they are weird or strange or different". I suppose the answers I got are some-
what related, because women may say that they have boyfriends so that they
avoid any possibility of being harrassed by guys.
But then, how do you know if someone you meet really has a boyfriend or whether
they are just saying so. I know there are other ways, like observing her over a
period of time or asking friends of hers, but these seem awfully sneaky and if
someone was trying to find out information like that on me, without asking me
directly, I don't know how I'd feel about them.
I never went out on a date with a woman who currently had a boyfriend. One of
my female friends had just broken up with her boyfriend and I went out dancing
with her, but it wasn't a real date, just two friends getting together. I
thought she might like to get out and have a good time, since aside from her
boyfriend she didn't really have much of a social life. Generally speaking,
I wouldn't pursue someone any further who said they already had a boyfriend,
because I figure they don't to date.
--
... hey, we've gotta get out of this place,
there's got to be something better than this ...
Greg Skinner (gregbo)
{allegra,cbosgd,ihnp4}!houxm!gregbo
gregbo%houxm.uucp@harvard.arpamolefeuvre@watarts.UUCP (Michael O LeFeuvre) (04/07/85)
> > Did you ever say you had a boyfriend when you didn't? Why? Did you want others > > to think you had one? > ...yes (to get an obnoxious guy at a bus stop to stop > hassling me) > > Incidentally, now that I am more trained as a fighter, I would > change that one "yes" to a "no." There are more direct ways to > end harassment than evasive references to mythical boyfriends. > > Ellen Well, Now that *I* am more trained as a fighter (4 years of Karate) I have a greater appreciation of of the *less* direct ways of ending harassment. I might use physical intimidation as a bluff to get someone of my back, but for a woman responding to a man such a bluff is bound to be called... - Rather than fight, run. - If you can't run, hide. - If you can't hide, fight to kill... but not over petty harrasment. Carlo @ the U of Waterloo
laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) (04/08/85)
I think that the notion ``because I am going out with you I can't go out with anybody else'' is crazy. If two people who are going out decide that they don't want to go out with anybody else, of course, I think that this is fine. What I do not like is the notion that your love life is supposed to work in waves. You know -- you meet somebody, and they aren't attatched, and then you go out for awhile and then things stop working out and then you have a fight and then you patch things together until you finally *can't* patch things together, and then it's over. Repeat until cynicism sinks in. It is a lot easier if you are going out with more than one person. The people in your life trickle in and trickle out and when a relationship ends they are still around and you don't have to sit up nights thinking ``is all this damn pain worth it''? -- alone, of course. It also means that you don't run around desperate for affection half the time. By the way, if you are using ``I already have a boyfriend'' as a line to keep someone at bay, you may get a surprise. I know several people who explicitly look for people who are already in relationships to go out with -- 'natch, since they are likely to understnad why they are interested in holding down more than one relationship. You may get exactly what you do not want to get... Laura Creighton utzoo!laura
zubbie@wlcrjs.UUCP (Jeanette Zobjeck) (04/09/85)
>> Do you have a boyfriend? >> Do you feel like you must have a boyfriend? >> Did you ever say you had a boyfriend when you didn't? Why? Did you want others >> to think you had one? >> Do you find it difficult to meet nice guys? (apply your own definitions of nice) >> Greg Skinner (gregbo) > no no yes ( It seemed like a good way to turn off a real clod in a bar when all I wanted to do was listen to the band.) no - if you mean men with which to form non-sexual friendships yes - if you mean men with whom I could establish a communicating relationship I was engaged to marry a man who was perhaps all that some women could ever want. He was kind, thoughtful generous and in a lot of ways sensitive to my personal needs. He had one failing which ultimately broke us up. I think it is best explained with a couple of quotes. DAVE: All I ask is when I tell you to do something you do it first and ask questions later. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jeanette: But why do we have to live so far south of Chicago when we could live more to the west and neither of us would have so far to travel to work. DAVE: You wont be working once we are married. I guess you can keep your job until you move in with me though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- DAVE: (1st 3 months of engagement) : Hi Honey, how was your day? I'm a little bushed from the drive up here *(about 100 miles)* do you mind if we dont go out this evening. DAVE (4th month and onward) : SHEESH ! WHAT A LONG DRIVE. Fix me a couple of martinis (as he heads off down the hall) _____________________________________________________________________ I dont need a *boyfriend*. I do need and want friends, both male and female, with whom to enjoy life with. If women are more able to communicate with me and I with them then I will probably have (and do) more women friends then men. When, and if, I ever meet a man who can really care about me as a person and not as his compliment I may try again to form some real and meaningful relationship which i guess could be called *boyfriend* in the mean time I find that doing all I can to develop myself and to help establish women as real people in this world are more than enough for me to feel that my life has a large value. ****************************************************************************** Jeanette L. Zobjeck wlcrjs! ihnp4!< >zubbie ihlpa!
harmon_c@h-sc1.UUCP (david harmon) (04/09/85)
> I think that the notion ``because I am going out with you I can't go > out with anybody else'' is crazy. Right on! I would never ask an S.O. not to date others. If heesh chose not to, I would take it as a very strong complement--but I would NOT ask it of heesh. (By the way, 'herm' has the problem of confusion with word fragments derived from "Hermes", which usually denote maleness. Ie, 'hermaphrodite' combines it with Aphrodite to indicate a mixture of male and female.) Dave Harmon -- -- David Harmon harmon_c%h-sc1@harvard.ARPA, seismo!harvard!h-sc1!harmon_c
ellen@reed.UUCP (Ellen) (04/09/85)
> > Incidentally, now that I am more trained as a fighter, I would > > change that one "yes" to a "no." There are more direct ways to > > end harassment than evasive references to mythical boyfriends. > > > > Ellen > > Well, Now that *I* am more trained as a fighter (4 years of Karate) > I have a greater appreciation of of the *less* direct ways of ending > harassment. > > I might use physical intimidation as a bluff to get someone of my back, > but for a woman responding to a man such a bluff is bound to be called... > > - Rather than fight, run. > - If you can't run, hide. > - If you can't hide, fight to kill... but not over petty harrasment. > Carlo @ the U of Waterloo Okay, Carlo, you are correct in getting upset -- I phrased my incidentally somewhat inaccurately. I do not mean to imply that I would hit a guy who was harassing me. I include among my training skills such as verbal assertiveness (not aggressiveness), which was what I had in mind as an alternative to the evasive and weak boyfriend remark. I agree with you that physical conflict is to be avoided whenever possible, but would like to point out to you that, statistically speaking, most rapists will "check out" their potential victims by talking to them for from 3-10 minutes BEFORE the attack, and being assertive then is known to be a deterrent. That's all I meant, sorry if I alarmed people, I don't go around unnecessarily beating up men, end of clarification. Ellen
srm@nsc.UUCP (Richard Mateosian) (04/10/85)
In article <1193@houxm.UUCP> gregbo@houxm.UUCP (Greg Skinner) writes: >I wouldn't pursue someone any further who said they already had a boyfriend, >because I figure they don't want to date. Perhaps if you didn't look at the situation in terms of persuing... -- Richard Mateosian {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA