mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) (05/01/85)
The following extracted from William Safire's "On Language" column in the Sunday New York Times Magazine (4/28 issue): "...'his or her' sounds overly legalistic or overly concerned with a need to avoid sexism in speech....How do you avoid it? One of two ways. The easiest way is to remember the phrase 'the male embraces the female' and to stick with words like 'mankind' rather than the labored 'humankind'. On that theory, when you come to a construction like 'Every single one should watch "his" pronoun agreement', you are not coerced into saying 'Every single one should watch "his or her" pronoun agreement' or being forced into the error of 'Every single one should watch "their" pronoun agreement'. The other way, if you happen to be chatting with Betty Friedan, is to recast the sentence: 'All of us should watch "our" pronoun agreement'. Avoid the his/her problem by changing the subject person to people...." Food for thought. Marcel Simon
mccolm@ucla-cs.UUCP (05/04/85)
>The following extracted from William Safire's "On Language" column >in the Sunday New York Times Magazine (4/28 issue): > > One of two ways. The easiest way is to remember the phrase 'the male > embraces the female' and to stick with words like 'mankind' rather > than the labored 'humankind'. But resort to these sorts of catchy but (in my very left-wing-nut view) unfair and possibly degrading rules is exactly what we should be trying to get rid of. Let us not, through omission, create the impression that all achievements are performed by men, or that affairs of the human race concern men first and women second, if at all. > The other way, if you happen to be chatting with Betty Friedan, is to > recast the sentence: 'All of us should watch "our" pronoun agreement'. > Avoid the his/her problem by changing the subject person to people...." "Let us all speak correctly and fairly, and partake of no stereotypes in our speeches, as long as anyone's watching." No, sorry, I disagree. We should either be fair to women in language, or consistent in our hypocricy. -Eric McColm Shade and sweet water... ...!ucla-cs!mccolm
mat@mtx5b.UUCP (Mark Terribile) (05/06/85)
Y'know, I don't believe that the people who want to use ``their'' and ``them''
as a singular forms are really serious. If you want to change the language
by casting the word as a gender-neutral singular, then please use it in a
singular context:
The firefighter put down their axe and grabbed the
hose.
When you see the cleaner, tell them that they has to
do the next hall, too.
--
from Mole End Mark Terribile
(scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat
,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.ed@mtxinu.UUCP (Ed Gould) (05/10/85)
> Y'know, I don't believe that the people who want to use ``their'' and ``them'' > as a singular forms are really serious. Not serious? Well, believe what you will. > If you want to change the language > by casting the word as a gender-neutral singular, then please use it in a > singular context: > > The firefighter put down their axe and grabbed the > hose. > > When you see the cleaner, tell them that they has to > do the next hall, too. > > from Mole End Mark Terribile Why? There is precedent for having singular/plural mixed. Which do you prefer: I'm a lover, not a fighter. Which is you? I'm a lover, not a fighter. Which are you? -- Ed Gould mt Xinu, 2910 Seventh St., Berkeley, CA 94710 USA {ucbvax,decvax}!mtxinu!ed +1 415 644 0146
srm@nsc.UUCP (Richard Mateosian) (05/12/85)
In article <368@mtxinu.UUCP> ed@mtxinu.UUCP (Ed Gould) writes: > > I'm a lover, not a fighter. Which is you? > > I'm a lover, not a fighter. Which are you? > Your point is taken, but your example's faulty. As I learned English, the subject of "Which are you?" is "you", not "which". -- Richard Mateosian {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!srm nsc!srm@decwrl.ARPA
mat@mtx5b.UUCP (Mark Terribile) (05/15/85)
On the use of ``their'' as a singular, replying to an article in which I said that if ``their'' is used as a singular form, we should use it in a singular context: >Why? There is precedent for having singular/plural mixed. Which do >you prefer: > > I'm a lover, not a fighter. Which is you? > > I'm a lover, not a fighter. Which are you? > >-- >Ed Gould mt Xinu, 2910 Seventh St., Berkeley, CA 94710 USA >{ucbvax,decvax}!mtxinu!ed +1 415 644 0146 For your crimes, you are sentenced to study net.nlang.fundementals for six months! The singular ``you'' is a second person pronoun and takes a SINGULAR SECOND PERSON ``are''. Clear? -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) mtx5b!mat ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.